argonzero

Hey everyone, it was definately hard to find information about Tacoma 4Runner/Tundra brake swaps so I hope this will help everyone out. I'm hoping to get as much information into one place as possible. As far as I know this information is correct, but if not please let me know with a PM. Some of the terms I used might not be correct, but bare with me. If theres anything else to ad please do! To my knowledge, this is the first Tundra to Tacoma caliper uprade. Thanks the 4 Runner gurus at Yotatech and to George4drV6 for his insights. I know theres not as many Tacos on here but without Yotatech there wouldn't have been any way for me to gather so much information beforehand.


The Truck (heavy weighted modifications):
-2004 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab 4x4.
-Supercharged w/7th injector.
-Rear Demello hybrid bumper, “heavy duty” sliders.
-Front ARB bumper
-33 BFG All-terrains.
-1” steel wheel spacer.
-eDead sound deadening on doors and roof. Acoustiblok floor and firewall (approx 75 lbs total).


The Problem:
-Because of the heavier modifications and larger wheel size, the stock brakes where not able to stop the vehicle in emergency situations. Maximum braking power was about 50-60% of the pedal travel, further depressing the pedal would not increase braking power.
-Brake fluid would overheat causing the fluid to break down, or the brake components to breakdown internally causing the brake fluid to be contaminated (pictures below). Brakes would have to be bleed every 2 weeks or so, and would come out black. Brakes continue to loose compression resistance, and pedal feel would slowly become more and more “spongy.”
-Freeways where a nightmare and sudden yellow lights would leave my truck about 2/3rds in intersection at about 45 mph.
-Nearly impossible to tow.


Solution:
-199mm S13WE brake calipers from 99 to 03 Tundra with 12.5” rotors.
-Larger rotors, larger pistons.



Required materials:
-S13WE brake calipers and corresponding rotors. I ordered “2001 Toyota Tundra v8 4x4” parts at the auto parts store.
-Brake pads.
-16” wheels, with proper backspacing. (Possibly 4” backspacing, I used 4.5” with ample room left)
-Brake fluid.


Required tools:
-Drill and bits.
-14mm and 17mm sockets, 10mm wrench, lug nut wrench.
-Jack and jack-stands.


Modifications required:
-Bending the dust cover / disk shield.
-Drilling out the end of the banjo bolt approx 1/8”-1/4” deep.


Cost Total - $305.61:
-S13WE calipers $90 from eBay.
-Rotors from AutoZone $165 w/tax.
-Performance Friction brake pads (Same as TRD brake pad) w/Lifetime warranty at AutoZone $44.16 w/tax.
-Dot 3/ Dot 4 brake fluid $6.45 w/tax at Pep-Boys.


Time:
-Approx 2 to 3 hours.


Driving Impressions:
-Incredible improvement over stock brakes. As good as stock braking with stock tires, if not slightly better. A MUST for double cab Tacomas with 33” tires. I will post a side by side braking comparison with a similarly setup truck later.


FAQ:

Q: I was just googling for S13WE, and came across a thread at Tundra Solutions about a TSB on these calipers, and that post-TSB, they put in 13WL calipers in Tundras. Any clue why the S13WE was removed? Can the 13WL be used? Is it safer?
A: S13WE were the ones used for Tundras before 04 or 03 (cant remember). The Tundras were getting problems with quick brake pad wear and rotor warping, so they were replaced with S13WL 231mm calipers. Im not sure if they use the same rotor, but the phisical size of the caliper is much larger then the 199mm S13WE. The older S13WE were not recalled due to safety concerns or failures, but quick wear and warping. Those aren't as abundant ether, while there are many more S13WE availible due to the recall. They're too weak for Tundras (larger models), but very strong for my Double Cab 4x4 Tacoma with trail armor and 33's.

Q: Do you have to use the wheel spacers ?
A: Stock rims without spacers do fit with plenty of clearance (see pictures).

Q: Will this work on a 2wd prerun?
A: From what I gathered, it should work on 6 lug 2001 to 2004 Tacomas. 95.5 to 00 Should not have a problem ether, but I'm not certain.

Q: Will the stock master cylinder work?
A: So far the stock master cylinder works great. The travel on the pedal feels about the same as before. Some have stated that the 4 Runner and Tundra master brake cylinder looks the same size externally, but are unsure of actual volume.

Q: Does ABS still work?
A: After testing on some dirt/sandy trails, I saw that the ABS system still works after the modification. The usual clunking/clicking of the ABS system was there in the soft areas, and under normal driving the ABS light is not on (meaning that it is active). I can't say that the ABS system is running at 100% effectiveness, though I did not feel any difference from before.


Other Notes:
-Might be possible to swap the larger S13WL brake calipers also, but with trimming or removal of the dust cover.
-Does not interfere with Donahoe Racing coil-overs (the banjo does not come into contact with the lower coil mount on full lock and full droop).
-Calipers approximately same height and length, but slightly wider (see picture).
-4 Runners and Tundras front brakes are connected by a metal brake line and a flare nut. Tacomas use banjo bolts. The flare nut and banjo bolt are 10mm x 1.0 thread. The banjo bolt will fit into 4 runner / Tundra calipers with minor modification (see below).




Pictures and How-To:


Stock calipers and rotors.



The Tundra caliper test fitted with stock rotor.



Notice how the pistons stick further out compared to the stock rotor.


The modified banjo bolt. I used a large drill bit to drill down enough to where the material was removed upto the start of the thread, but not removing any thread. The angle on the drill bit was perfect depth. I also widened the center of the banjo with a smaller drill bit. There is a "nipple" at the bottom of the caliper connection, and the banjo will hit that before properly seating all the way if you do not remove some material at the end of the banjo bolt. When you tighten this bolt, make sure you get a snug connection between the bolt head, washers and banjo, and not the tip of the banjo bolt and the "nipple" inside the caliper.


Comparison of the Tacoma rotor (top) and the Tundra rotor (bottom).



Side view comparison.


Tundra rotor and stock dust cover. The dust cover is easily bent backwards. It is not nessessary to grind or cut any of the dust cover to fit the Tundra calipers.

argonzero

The Tundra rotor clears in the back.


After bending the dust cover back.


Entire assembly of the caliper, rotor, and brake pad. Notice the banjo is now pointed slightly twoards the back of the truck, and slightly to the outside. So far, it looks like it will not have any issues with the lower coil mount on the Donahoe Racing coil-overs. I have tested full lock and full droop so far.


Completed brake assembly, I have a 1 and 1/6th inch spacer (AOR steel). I know spacers suck.


Tacoma S12WN caliper vs Tundra S13WE calipers. I have the brake pads in the Tacoma one in this picture.


Banjo on the Tundra caliper now goes outwards and backwards.


Stock banjo goes nearly straight up in on the stock calipers, the Donahoe Coil-Overs hit the banjo bolt unless you bend it back.

argonzero

Stock Tacoma brakes. Its a little hard, but you can see the dust cover in there.


Tundra brakes and rotors.


Stock wheel clearance on 16's.


Tundra caliper and rotor clearence on 16's.


What happens to your brake fluid when your brake system overheats. Theres actually particles on the left, clean fluid on the right (usually engine oil color and clear).


On the left side, you can tighten the banjo bolt and the little protrustion on the banjo itself will hit the caliper, allowing you to tighten and not have the hose/banjo spin while your tightening. On the right hand side, when you tighten the banjo bolt, there is nothing to stop the banjo from spinning. Use a pipe wrench or something to stop the banjo from spinning.


Here the wheel is installed with no spacer, so the stock 16" rims do work with a lot of room to spare.


Clearance from wheel to caliper.


Clearance from wheel to caliper, this angle is misleading, but there is a lot of room left.


Profile of the stock rim.


Head on view of the back of the stock wheel.

MTL_4runner

Great pics and good job on doing the pathfinding for others.
Glad the banjo fitting worked without any modification too!

bamachem

AWESOME writeup!

ebelen1

Ditto. I think you've just summarized threads upon threads of info/questions into one very useful write-up. Big props...

UNR.Grad

I'm doing the tundra mod next weekend, although it's pretty cut and dry, this write-up will definitely help. Well done.

97Limited

Nice job on the pics and the write-up!!

I just did the Tundra Upgrade on my 4Runner last week!!!

argonzero

Thx, yea you 4 Runner guys have all the fun. The biggest hurdle is the unknown and the banjo bolt. No one was sure if the banjo fit he flare nut connection on the tundra/4 runner calipers. For Tacoma owners, hopefully they'll know that this could be done now =D.

bosco659

Great write up with nice pics of the conversion. I will be doing this to my 4Runner soon (have all of the parts now - just need time). My only concern with the conversion for Taco's is the use of the banjo bolt on the Tundra caliper. From what I have seen and read, I would not be comfortable using a banjo bolt on a caliper with an inverted flare fitting.

Here's a possible solution for Taco owners. If you have a look at Porterfield Brakes, they make "modular" stainless brake lines. That means that you buy the straight part of the brake line and buy the fittings separately for the two ends. This is what I have on my Supra and they work great. This way you have proper fittings on both ends. Here's the link:

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/catalog06.pdf

Have a look at pages 75 through 77 of the catalogue.

Hope this helps someone.

Vic

d0ubledown

great writeup w/ pics comparing the two setups. perhaps it could be put into the tech section...although for runners there isnt any banjo fitting issues, but step by step w/ pics makes it easy for the greenest of wrenchers to handle this upgrade...

Tanto

Great writeup!

argonzero

Hey thanks for the link. Some people were suggesting that route, and I would have done it myself if the Banjo did not fit at all. Seems like its possible that the calipers were all made to accept both types connection, being that there is a flat area at the top for the banjo and washers to make proper contact and being the same size and thread. So far so good with the banjo in the inverted flare connection, no leaking ect.

Thanks for the link to that PDF. I've seen some other companies but they didn't have as many parts. I plan on getting some custom stainless steel lines in the future, and these guys are about 10 miles away from me. I'll be able to do it right next time!

argonzero

I just test fitted the stock Tacoma rims with no spacer, and they clear without a hitch (Pictures above)!

PO2SIMS

Is the frame side of the brake line a different fitting than the frame side of a 4runner line. I was wondering if Taco guys could just use 4runner lines.

CapeRustBucket

Saw this same thread on custom tacos, i'll be trying it next week!

sputnik378

I want to know the same thing.. Can I use a 4runner brake line on my 95.5 Tacoma?

I've spent about $550 on this upgrade because I like nice things and nice brakes seem like a mutually beneficial expenditure (happy truck, happy me). Anyway I don't want to skimp on the brake lines, but I'm not exactly sure which ones I need to get.

Let's revive this thread and I'll promise to get some new pics on here for everyone when we put my truck on the lift next week.

SOOOO pretty much, I get to here and then turn into a gweeb...
http://porterfield-brakes.com/catego...+Fittings.html

hatda02

On my 99 4r I did the 199mm upgrade about 6 months ago. It's still in the middle of a restore so I have not used them yet. My 01 Taco only had 10k miles when I bought it 2 years ago and is up to 24k now, but the PO parked it on dirt/grass all those years and the frame rotted so it was replaced by Toy along with the rear leafs and all the lines. The problem still was the rear axle housing and both steering knuckles were still rotted to hell. I picked up an almost new complete rear axle on eBay and two knuckles from Cali over the last couple of weeks.

Also, the calipers on the Taco were rotted pretty bad and the piston finally locked and was dragging. This locked up caliper is what made me decide to move to the Tundra brakes and seeing all that rust ticked me off so I bought the parts. Since I should have done the 231mm on the 4r I'm moving the the 199mm to the Taco.

When I lifted my Taco I put stainless steel lines on from 4wheelparts. At the same time I put stainless on my 4R. I'm very aware of the differences and similarities between the two.

After reading your question it made me think. The banjo bolt difference never registered. I'm going to pull the 199's off my 4R tomorrow and put a coat of caliper paint on them and then look to install the stainless lines using the banjo bolt and modifying if necessary. I've already cleaned up the knuckles and they are on the truck.

The bolt location for the brake line bracket is in the exact same location on both the 4R and Taco; it's just a different bracket as the 4R uses a U clip (my term - not the correct name) and the Taco uses this loop that bolts to the bracket as you know. As a matter of fact, I put 4R ABS knuckles on my Taco and will just cover the ABS holes. I now have spare 4R brake line knuckle brackets. I put new hard lines on the 4R from the caliper to the bracket a few months ago when I did the 199mm upgrade. I'm going to look in the day light tomorrow for any other differences, but I don't see a reason why you could not go purchase 4R hard lines for your Taco. You would need to buy the 4R knuckle bracket and 4R soft lines or upgrade to 4R stainless. Without going out and looking the only question I have is if there is any difference on where the soft line mates to the hardline in the engine bay. I can get some pics tomorrow for side by side comparison.

Would that help any? I can post any pics you need of what I have side by side and also what I end up doing with my banjo since I don't want to buy anything more. Let me know. Maybe I just rambled on and this is of no help.

hatda02

I went out and compared the 4R versus Taco upper hard lines this morning. I'm guessing it could be done, but you are going to have to find an aftermarket soft line that is longer than factory or aftermarket factory replacement. The upper hard line end point is mounted above the frame on the Taco while the 4R extends below this point to another mounting bracket on the outside of the frame. My Taco does not have a mounting point for this bracket and the aftermarket or even factory soft line would be way too tight. If you can find an aftermarket soft line with the same connections as the 4R requires and about 4 - 5" longer it will work, but you would need the 4R style knuckle mounting bracket and the 4R hard lines from the caliper to knuckle mounting bracket.

This post is using entirely factory or factory-sized parts. I'm sure there are many other solutions that could be used for the 4R hard line out of the caliper.

calebdnehus

Does anyone know if you can squeeze the 199mm s13we calipers on a 98 Tacoma with 15 inch rims? I would love to do this mod but I dont want to have to get rid of my 15's with 33 inch bfg at ko's on it