Injohneer

Hey yall

Lately I've been thinking about revamping my audio system. Right now I have:
1-12" KICKER sub
1-12" AUTOTEK (STREET MACHINE) sub
2-6"x9" ALPINE (I think) POSs (rear)
2-4" AUTO ZONE POSs (front)

1-400 W WALMART 4-ch amp (Mains)
1-225 W AUTOTEK (STREET MACHINE) 2-ch amp (subs)


Most of that was already in there when I got the truck - I bought the Kicker as an attempt to get started upgrading, and the walmart amp is a replacement for the autotek that was in there originally. I know the subs are way underpowered and it's rigged up stupid, don't waste your breath. What I'm wanting to do is:

Get another Kicker to match
Replace both amps
600-800 W 2-ch amp for the subs
400-600 W 4-ch amp for the mains
Replace the 6x9s
Replace the 4s (maybe)
Add some tweeters (maybe)

On the scale of 0-10, I don't need a 8 or 9 system, I would be happy with a 6 or 7... Sound isn't going to be the most important thing in my truck and I don't have a huge budget. So: What would you suggest for brands for amps and speakers?

Also the stereo...I forgot...I replaced that with a WALMART POS when the old one started chewing CDs...I need something that plays MP3s and has a good anti-skip function.

BIGMOOI

I think that one of the best places to look for some good deals is ebay you can find some very good prices on amps like some older kicker amps and MTX amps. I am not a personal fan of Rockford but I think there old amps (DSM) and the new power series are pretty good. the new ones are kinda pricey. I recomend my new Sub amp it is a Pioneer Gmd510m it is a D-class. I am not one to promote Pioneer for amps because in the past there amps were not really up to par. but I work at a service center and we seen acouple of these amps so we power tested them and stressed them on the bench and they took it pretty well and there output was the cleanest that we have seen with D-class amplifacation. I also think that the look is very classic because in these days every one is about the bling factor and this amp is small and very clean. and we also compared there boards and Pioneer seemed to fix alot of there old mistakes. But best of all these amps are cheap as hell on ebay because no one knows about them or wants them. I have only had my amp for about 3weeks now and i think it is every thing that I wanted from it and now i am 2ohm stable :-) .
Sorry about the life story.
But I hope it helps you.
Bigmooi

Injohneer

Bling factor?? haha...

The one good thing about my Walmart amp is that the cover is clear..so if something smokes, I would be able to find it w/o taking off the cover...

But in reality, my amps will be hidden, either behind the side panels in back or built in to my utility box in the back. I'll probably end up running a 3 or 4 inch 12 VDC fan to supply air flow to them....in short, looks really don't matter to me.

I forgot to mention, but size IS a big factor in my amps: I want them small.

Injohneer

The Pioneer Gmd510m is a 1 channel amp. I hadn't really thought about this before, but I could just get rid of one sub and go with one channel, or hook both up to one channel. So, my new question is:
In your opinion, is there much difference in the sound (unless your song has stereo separation) if you don't split the bass?

BIGMOOI

Well normally when you has a sub line it is always one channel. If you have a 2 channel amp and you bridge them you are running 1 channel. The pioneer i told you about is a mono channel amp designed to run subs its frequency response is only like 20hz - 240hz. and D-class amplifers use digital swtiching directley on the signal line and if they used it on amps that were designed to run componets you would be able to hear the high speed switching. you could run 4 subs off a single line it is all about how much power your amp can produce continuously and how you wire the subs and what impedance load you give the amp. like I am using my pioneer amp right now and it is powering 2-12" jbl gt1200D's (dual 4 ohm voice-coils). I have the subs wired up in series 8ohms a piece and then i parallel them before the get to the amp and the amp see it as a 4ohm impeadance. but if i was going to run just one of my 12" subs I would parallel it too 2 ohms adn it would be pushing more power.
hopefully I did not make it more confusing.
On the other note if size is a issue then i would look at this amp on ebay and get the size specs off of pioneer's website. you will see this amp is quite small for the power rating. It was about 1/3 smaller then my kicker amp that it replaced and the pioneer is a more efficent higher power amplifier and it is 2ohm mono stable. remember there are alot of amps that are 2ohm stereo stable but not alot of them are 2 ohm mono stable.

sorry about the length again.
Bigmooi

Injohneer

the length? man, you haven't seen some of my posts. lol.

OK don't laugh too hard but is a PYLE amp known for being anything besides cheap? the PLA540 is what I was looking at, but if they have a reputation for being below the average cheap amp then I'll look elsewhere.
Right now I think I"ll go with this amp (trimmed down on the power) on one sub, I can upgrade later when $ allows. or add an additional speaker.

BIGMOOI

If i were you I would hold off and get the amp I recomended or a different amp, and do not waste your time with that pyle amp. the problem with off name companies is there normally a whole lot of differance in tolerances between there amps. or you could say there quality and control is horrible. with that amp it may be ok or you might just hate it. and just for a thought as to someone that wants to become and audiophile you should always put more money in to your amp then your speakers. Most people buy the nicest speakers in the world and then they go and buy the cheapest amplifier they can get and wonder why there stuff sounds like crap and then they blame who the speaker mfg is. you can have the best speakers in the world but if you power it with crap then what would the out come of the sound be. However if you must buy the pyle amp then i cannot stop you. I just want to give you my opinion and i want you to spend less time like this ---> minus the sopa thing or nothing is worst then beating yourself with a chair

Injohneer

LOL. Well I don't wanna be a hardheaded guy deserving a so I did a little research ... I didn't realize that the difference between peak and rms power could vary so much in the specs: I was thinking that rms has to be .707 of the peak, so if I got a 700W amp I would have 494W...but looking at the specs, I see I'm wrong. What am I missing out on?

BIGMOOI

I do not really want to go in to the technical stuff to much because it is kinda lengthy and I do not want to go and look everything up in the books. But that number you got for rms is the correct percentage but just to make it easy for an explanation. There is what works on paper and then there is what works in real life. In theroy on paper you can use a battery a dc to ac converter and then plug in a car battery charger and then hook that back up to the battery to charge it. but in real life it will not work. Also in one of my classes the teacher drew up a schematic that would have solved the power issues in california but it does not work in real life.

Specs on any and all amplifers have been so far between that it was always been comparing apples to oranges. this is why they have brought CEA compliance 6000 (if i am correct i may have worded it incorrectly) so you could now compare 2 different amps on the same scale.

I am not sure how much you understand about amps but it seems you got some of it down. so you know that RMS wattage is countinous ( always useable power) and there is Peak wattage ( useable power for a few seconds). There is what audiophiles call clipping the signal what happends is when the amp is being over driven it turns a sinwave in to a square wave (sending DC to your speaker) and when the amp is clipping power consumption is increased almost exponetially and the problem is there is a very fine line to peak wattage and clipping. If you clip the signal ( over drive the amp) going to the sub it starts to burn the voice coil because it is being held in one direction either in or out. if you want to see this take a cheap speaker and put DC directly on the terminals. it will push it one direction and if you flip the polarity it will go the opposite direction.

Back to your major question that .707 works with the wall outlet in your house. the peak to peak voltage out of you outlet is actually 169.73v (if the .707 number is correct sounds correct to me) but the 120 volts that is always used is the rms voltage. And if I remeber correctly that formula is used for voltage and not for power how ever power is directly tied to voltage. Hopefully this is some useable information for you and i did not just ramble on for my own good.
Bigmooi
PS :pat: <--- this is very detrimental to your brain so the less we do this the better cause then we dont need this or to much of . And to tell you the truth i have had really good luck with systems in my life ( hehe I am only 23 and i started systems when i was like 15), but i am trying to give you information that i learned and have been taught. there truely is no reason to waste money on stuff you will reaplace i say save up and spend the money to first time on stuff like this there are other situations that we have to like driving beater cars and stuff that is very expensive. but on electronics you are better off to buy just what you want and not stuff that you dont want and replace later. cause you will have something you didnt truely want and will be counting the days unitil you can get what you did want.

Injohneer

Yeah, most of that garbage I still remember from 2 yrs ago when they forced me to take classes like Electric Circuit Analysis and Mechanical Applications for Electronics... the part I got between anyway.

I guess it's the whole efficiency thing which we haven't exactly mentioned (only alluded to) (I assumed it was figured into the peak wattage, I dunno, let's say it's not for good measure)... oh and configuration, what resistance the load has. all that jazz.

wow, we're the same age...

I guess one major problem and the reason I started asking, is I don't KNOW what I want. lol. I don't know how good I can make a 12" sub sound by sealing it in a box rather than leaving it loose, I don't know whether that means I want 2 subs or just one.

Hmm. maybe I should go back to my engineering techniques and remember that troubleshooting means you do one thing at a time and check the results. Maybe I'll start with the crap I have and just build the box for the sub.

I found the specs for the amp that I have: if I bridge the 2 channels and put it on a 4 ohm speaker, I get 225 W. Does that mean it'd be really easy to clip the amp on a 300W sub?

Ahh yes another idea... since I plan on actually doing all the install early January, maybe I should wait until then to buy...does the audio industry see big after christmas/year end/old model sales? I am betting it does, just like computers and other things...

BIGMOOI

Well the chrismas thing is all about luck weather or not you get lucky that something that you wanted sold out or not. What we were told and I have seen. If you take a 100 watt sub and feed it 150 watts opposed to taking a 150 watt sub and feed it 150 watts being that the subs have the same impeading load and the voice coils are the same sized the first one will sound better. It is always better to over drive a speaker then to under drive one.

If you are not sure what you want then i recomend that you just go out and meet some people and ask to listen to there systems. but just realize that it helps alot to hear a system in the same size vehicle that you are going to put a system in. so a 4 runner and a tacoma are not good comparisons. but i am sure you know that. it is like comparing a honda CRX to a Ford Excusrion. lol

Just curious so what do you do for a job. since we are basically the sam age. i actually turn 23 in november hehe.

Bigmooi

Injohneer

Yeah yeah but none of the 4 runnas I know have any quality sound, and there's no way I would listen to a Ford... lol, j/k that's a good idea though
I graduated in April (4 days after my birthday) after 5 years of teachers me, and went to work as a software engineer ... I look at wiring schematics and write logic statements. I work for FlightSafety International, making aircraft simulators...
Remember the space shuttle training cockpit in the movie Armageddon? We make those for airplanes.
My group simulates or stimulates about half of the knobs & switches and most of the lights in an airplane cockpit, when a simulator is built.

heh...speaking of that... I'm trying to run the simulation and can't get the plane off the ground. Gotta love that.

What about you? for some reason I'm thinking you do sound systems but is that your actual job or on the side?

BIGMOOI

Well I am and Electronics Technician. I work for Ultimate Electronics. I am a Home audio Tech right now. However I think I may go back to school to work for the FAA but I am not sure right now. Being an audiophile right now is a hobbie I cannot afford everything that I want, But everyone has that problem.

Bigmooi

Injohneer

Ha! So you work 4 blocks from my apt? j/k