BlazeN8

I'll try and recall the order. We are talking about adjustments to the rear only now. The rear has Chevy 63" leaf springs off a 1500 truck. These are the three pack leaf springs with the overloads removed. It has a 10" shackle. The shock is a Fox piggyback 2.0 bypass with standard valving. To start my runs through the whoops both rebound and compression adjustment screws started in the middle of the setting range. I had added all the ballast for transport to location and kept in place for the first few runs. It was (2) old rusted out jerry cans full of sand (70lb each) and (2) forklift counter weights (50lb each). When I made my first run through the whoops it didn't contact the bump stops and the rear bucked and floated quite a bit. I lightened up on the compression a full turn and added a full turn to the rebound. It still didn't contact the bumps but did buck less. Next I lessened the compression a turn and added another to the rebound. This time it hit the bumps and bucked even less. I decided to drop the forklift weights to see what would happen. This time it bucked more and the bumps didn't hit. After that I cannot remember what combination of things we played with? What I ended up with was the 70lb jerry can and one 50lb weight = 110lb. In the final setting the rebound was maxed out with the compression almost all the way relaxed. In this setting it was hitting the bumps but only on the biggest hits. The rebound was fairly controlled but it it could have used more.

Some changed I made since the Barstow trip was lengthening the limit straps 2". A greater distance on the rebound of the stroke should help. Unfortunatly the truck experienced some electrical problems before the Baja trip. I was not able to track down the problem before departure. Another issue is the Fordota fuel range is limited to about 170 miles per tank. It runs on high octane to so it gets expensive. And lastly since the Fordota no longer has a bed it can't transport / recover the quad that my buddy races. So, I ended up driving my 1985 P/U which has a 300 mile range and runs on low octane. Plus the 1985 rides like a brick so it keeps me under control and at much lower speeds! Here is the Fordota and the 1985 together. And here is the 1985 at Punta Estrella just south of San Felipe.

donomite49

nice pair of yota's for sure. looks like mine in white lol. i'm liking the chevy 63's for the rear end when i get to that part of my build. i am wondering how much travel i can get out of those springs while keeping the shocks under the bed, i have to haul my bikes and stuff. i am thinking fox bypass for shocks. have you seen the metalcloak long travel shocks? http://www.metalcloak.com/MetalCloak...hock-s/229.htm i wonder if i could max out travel with these compared to the fox units. your thoughts? and thanks for sharing info, still learning before i leap so to speak...ran into this thread and these guys are into theory and all but can be confusing . http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186334 i used to live outside of hemet and close to the patellis jim and joe with a blazer race truck, baja and stuff. evan had a set of baja ta's on my 79 yota, back when they had the cool mud style tread.

Numbchux

Basic Geometry. Same angles, with a longer axle, means more travel. So converting to uniballs or heims, you will not gain much (if any) travel without widening your track, or dropping big bucks on RCV axles.




I think the ball joint extensions are plenty strong enough. I'm not a big fan of the geometry change, and built-in lift involved with them. But I think that is the necessary evil of an affordable long travel kit. But I'm not worried about the strength.

My other reasons for choosing blazeland. I'm not a racer. My truck is designed for trails and rocks. And I'm not a stupid driver, I learned to rock crawl in a body-lifted Subaru station wagon.

Also, my truck is street driven. Not daily, but still on the street. I've driven a few cars with heims and uniballs in the suspension. I'll pass on that racket, thanks! Not to mention what the road salt does to those in the winter here. Stock balljoints for me. I'll carry spares if I need to.



Honestly, I'd probably buy the blazeland kit right now, except I know I won't be installing it for some time, and I'll just be loosing the core charge for the stock arms. I'm on the lookout for some cheap cores, and then I'll probably jump on it.

SCToy

Yes you can get more travel with a t100 axle, but you the upper balljoint will bind before the axle. The UCA is shorter than the LCA so it's on a smaller radius, thus the upper balljoint must misalign more than the lower ball joint. increasing the amount of misalignment in the upper joint with a uniball will increase travel. The upper ball joint binds before the axle does.

SCToy

The t100 axles can get you even more travel, but there are more complex steering geometry changes going on with the increased track width and tie rod extensions are a poor excuse of a bandaid fix.
Long travel should be done right, not cheap. Personally I think a stock width kit could be really great for a budget wheeler, as a coilover is gunna do a lot more for you than the extra inch or two of travel as far as ride comfort. The trick is to not lift the truck and just cut the fenders to stuff bigger tires in there. Keep the CVs at a good angle at ride height.

xxxtreme22r

Again theories. No proof of claims. Show me 1 blown ball joint. And the way I see it, those tie rod extensions etc etc aren't gonna act much differently then the steering itself on a T-100.

Oh and Someone on here has been running a drop bracket kit without the bump stop extensions. I don't believe he's ever blown a ball joint. Or a CV for that matter.

And if I have my geometry right, longer travel on stock width without extending the tie rods will actually result in more bump steer. The actual correct way to to correct steering geometry in either case is to run a drop pitman arm. This will keep the relative angle between the centerlink and outer tie rod more level.

And then there is the previously stated issue and debate whether or not running heims on a daily driver is a good idea or not. I'm with him. Start putting mud, dirt, road salt into those heim joints they will clunk around like a mofo when the urethane joint starts to wear out really fast.

And what's the price difference between a hiem joint and ball joint? If your not racing and just wheeling, how many ball joint do you think your going to go though before you wear out that heim driving in dirty road conditions for an extended amount of time? Oh wait, you don't know, noone has ever popped a ball joint on these things. Even when running the ball joint spacers.

Hey Nate, how much more travel does this kit offer over say a stock T-100? Shouldn't be much more then that right? Since we are talking the geometry is almost identical.

SCToy

Actually the t100 has a different center link that is wider, so it doesn't have crazy long tie rods. I didn't say the ball joint will break. I said the bracket is the weak spot as it is extending the lever on that connection to the UCA.
A drop pitman wouldn't fix your steering geometry, new knuckles with a correct acronym would. Bump steer is due to the radius that the tie rod travels on differing from the radius that the spindle travels on. Because the knuckles haven't been corrected, the tie rods and control arms have been disproportionately lengthened.

dark_fairytales

Looks like I really need to get out there wheeling again, and make some videos. I have a Blazeland Kit. The Kit performs flawlessly. Stiff shocks is the only complaint I have at them moment, but that may not be an issue after I get the bumper, and winch installed.

If anyone is worried about strength; I think their crazy. The LCA's are plated top and bottom. I would predict the frame mounts would fail before the LCA's.

Like I said, I need to get out there and make lots of video for the naysayers.

Banana

delete

xxxtreme22r

I can see what SCToy is worried about with the upper extension brackets but in regular cycling of the CA's the extra leverage is negated simply because the CA's move. Where you have the issue is when the Lower (compression) bump stop is hit and the CA's stop moving. I will place a bet that the Bump stop bracket breaks before the UCA is bent and/or extension bracket breaks.

Why? Because WITHOUT any extra leverage, you take a good hard hit that smashes you against that bump stop, THIS will happen. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the BL kit quality itself.

MaK92-4RnR

When it comes down to it. Longtravel is about geometry. Regardless, you can only do so much with a 4wd setup due to the limiting factor of the CV joints. Personally, if nathan can achieve the same travel as the Total Chaos brand, why does it matter? He's built a cost effective way to out do the Total Chaos brand. If you dont like it, dont buy it.... plain and simple. both will give you the same numbers, both will do the same thing. one just looks different from the other.

BMcEL

Do it. Bacardi & cola, do it, do it.

2DoorJoRunner

x2 Seriously, do it.

yotasavg

Enough stupid banter indeed. Here's an idea that came to me: Mak92 recently brought these uniballs to my attention (http://www.roughroadfabrication.com/Parts.html). We see no reason why these would not work with the BL kit. Anybody running these or have any input?

exist

I’m going to try to be really mature about this, and not be a complete dick – as from what I’ve re-read in my posts on this matter so far, I haven’t been a dick yet sooo…

Sorry dude, I tried. I called you a few times, emailed a few times, from 2 different email addresses in case one got thrown into a spam box, I pm’d you on this forum and posted in threads you were involved in – the only thing I got back was “email me” – which I had done – and that’s all. Even if I was interested in your kit the customer service I received when I was ready to send a total stranger my hard earned money was bad enough that I’d never consider buying from you.
The failures/breakages would happen from actual hard wheeling, how many failures and breakages do you see with bone stock components? A blown balljoint will happen with your kit or stock, but the type of wheeling in the videos I’ve seen running blazeland components have been so unbelievably tame a bone stock truck wouldn’t get hurt..
The idea of going long travel in my opinion is so you can hit things at speed and safely.. I would not, in good faith, run a BL kit at speed like I would a Camburg, JD Fab, Total Chaos, etc. etc. kit…
I’ll happily find you a ˟˟˟˟ load of manufacturers defending their product. F-O-A took MASSIVE heat when they came out and day in and day out they defended their product, and steadily turned the naysayers around. All Pro Offroad stepped up huge on a few of the desert racing forums when they entered the Tacoma LT market and defended their stuff, asked for opinions/input, took customer concerns into play and came out with a solid product at the end of the day. Camburg representatives perk up here and there when they see issues on forums surrounding their product and do their best to fix, same with Chaos.. I understand it’s a huge undertaking defending your stuff and selling yourself – but the fact is unless you have a bomb proof product at the end of the day that you have very, very few naysayers regarding .. you’re going to get smack talkers. When you come out with a product that is so unbelievably important to your core safety like yours, you need to make DAMN sure it’ll NEVER fail and have it be YOUR fault..

I’d LOVE to see you hop over to Race Dezert or Desert Rangers and post your design and listen to input from the builders that can really give you advice.. And I’d take that advice, and re-consider your design and go scratch built.. Come out with a from-scratch setup and keep it at the same or similar price point you have now and you’d sell a hell of a lot more kits over your 50.
I have never said blazeland doesn’t work. It does. The core idea works the exact same whether you go blazeland, TC, Camburg, Fabtech, Downey, ANYTHING – they’re all the same “idea”, more or less, but the difference is reliability.. Can you honestly say your design is 100% safe for daily driving? The idea you have is the same as old school dirt track racing from forever ago, but even the low buck guys are making arms..

I’m not saying I can right now build my own long travel arms, I can’t.. Maybe after I finish going to college for engineering and go hang out in a shop long enough maybe, what I am saying however is take the GEOMETRY you have now (which works) and make the arms from scratch.. I don’t see it taking more work than the arms you work with now….

As for everyone else fighting about what is going to break first, it doesn’t matter – if you have the wrong shocks something is going to break, how many something’s depends on how you land.

... Sorry for the novel, I did sorta start the whole negative ball rolling so I figured I should come back and say my piece.

xxxtreme22r

So having the right shocks will help prevent breakage?

BlazeN8

Hmmmm..... I guess I can't please everyone!

BMcEL

Don't you think if there was an inexpensive way to build LT kits from scratch, someone would have done it by now?

The fact that you have beef with Nate, in my opinion, discredits everything you have against his product. Whether intended or not, it is ultimately a biased opinion. Find someone who has broken one of his kits first-hand as a result of the design and who will testify against it.

Nothing personal, but I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from here.

2DoorJoRunner

X2 Everything said here is pretty much spot on. Less customer service complaints and more FACTUAL evidence instead of supposition.

SCToy

I was actually more worried about braking forces tweaking or breaking the bracket in a panic stop on the freeway. A lot of sideways load on that bracket.