icerunner

Corroded contacts is the issue, FYI DO NOT REPLACE THE STARTER untill you

Give it A Couple WACKS WITH A large FRICKEN HAMMER..... (this is how the russians fix things)
PROBLEM SOLVED.....untill you hit another puddle and corrode the contact again...
THEN just give it another WACK!!

Adam F

Whacking it will only buy you some time. Eventually you wont be able to whack it hard enough to start it. Contacts are $20. Is getting out and hitting your starter with a hammer in the rain, middle of the night, or in the snow worth not paying $20?

beatenyota

I didn't say I was never going to fix it, it's not a problem right now. Worst case is i'm late to class.

icerunner

Adam,
20 bucks is not a big deal for new contacts.
Yet, sometimes driving over a large "salty puddle" will corrode the starter contacts enough to where the starter just "clicks". In that case, this is only a "current flow" issue caused by corroded contacts and not necessarily mean a "bad starter" or even that the starter contacts need to be replaced. Truely, if one took wire brush to clean the contacts, I don't see how this is any different then replacing the contacts.
Clean metal is clean metal... Or in other words, a "good connection" is a "good connection" and curent will flow and the truck will start. Unless the contacts are coated with a special anti oxident coating (to prevent corrosion) and that get scraped away over time.

A simple wack with a hammer will knock the corrosion off the contacts and sometimes it does solve the issue. Unitll antoher large puddle comes along.... this is no different from a poor connection caused corroded battery cables. You don't need to replace the battery cables or barrery when the cables are corroded...Clean them enough to where the current flows again, and you are good to go in most cases.

Adam F

Your starter is a sealed unit. If your driving over puddles and water is getting in your starter and shorting it out, then you've got issues. I've driven through PLENTY of water and never once had that kind of problem.

Sounds like you need to re-seal the starter solenoid cover. Or did you leave out the o-rings on the contacts?

Also you said

"if one took wire brush to clean the contacts, I don't see how this is any different then replacing the contacts."


What happens is the plunger hits the copper contacts thousands of times, causing the contact to wear away. It is a certain thickness to begin with, and over time it thins out, and since there are 2 contacts, one on each side, and the other side doesnt wear like the other, the plunger will not travel far enough to make contact with the contact. No amount of cleaning or beating on the starter will correct this problem.

icerunner

Hey,
I Agree with your school of thought some what, sometimes the "smart money" may be just to replace the contacts and call it a day.
However I must say, some times I like the thought of pulling a "McGyver" and a well placed "whack" with a hammer, and then it starts.... Kind of fun.
I will say that even thought the starter ins in a semi tight spot, It my understanding that the contacts are not fully sealed on our starters. Some of the starter contacts are somewhat exposed to the outside elements and as corrosion builds up on the outsides of these connections, It increases the resistance level of the contacts, the exact same as corroded battery cables.

I think, if most of the metal on the contacts is still present and not worn away like you said, I would scrape it clean and then apply a thin layer of "di electric grease" or "anti oxident grease" and torgue it down "like a mother" to maintain a good connection.
I just have a hard time spending $36.oo plus tax for 2 contacts, when I know that simple corrosion caused the issue.

I just happen to know that the "hammer trick" will surely get the vehicle started and get someone home in a jam... Almost always, water alone will not cause the contacts to go bad....Usually road salt is the main suspect and when the starter just clicks the person hit a puddle or was driving on a wet salty road prior to the car not starting, again just a simple a "poor connection" is the issue. A good under cariage wash from time to time helps with this issue as well.

mheart624

yea im a dealer tech, install new contacts, if you go to most toy dealer techs he probly has a box of starter contacts in his tool box he'd give ya.
i don't know what a new starter goes for but i'd bet it pricey compared to
the contacts.

GSGALLANT

9 times out of 10, the starter clicking problem is caused by worn contacts inside the solenoid where it contacts the plunger... not corroded contacts. More specifically, the battery side contact wears down. In rare cases, badly corroded connections outside the solenoid could cause a problem as well, but this isn't normally the likely culprit.

There are extremely high currents flowing through the contacts and plunger, and you get arcing right before and right after the plunger hits the contacts. I believe it is a known fact electrically that with most materials, arcing causes material transfer from the cathode (positive side) to the anode (negative side), which would explain why the battery side contact in the solenoid (connected to positive post of battery) wears down and the starter side contact in the solenoid (connected to ground through the starter motor) does not.

icerunner

[QUOTE=GSGALLANT;50689933]9 times out of 10, the starter clicking problem is caused by worn contacts inside the solenoid where it contacts the plunger... not corroded contacts. More specifically, the battery side contact wears down. In rare cases, badly corroded connections outside the solenoid could cause a problem as well, but this isn't normally the likely culprit.

Hey,
they are metal contacts....Yea if there REAL worn replace them... If there not real worn... why not wire brush them and re use them...?Do you replace Battery cables every time they get a little crud on them? I sure hope not as you are wasting your money. .... simple wire brushing works fine.... you just wire brush them &they will continue to absolutly fine for another 100,000 Miles....
Tell me How the hell are the "starter contacts" any different then battery cables? A dirty metal contact is a dirty metal contact... is the metal any different? Seriously, why not clean the metal and re use it? You guys act like the starter contacts wears like a brake pad....they don't .. one contact does wear some due to the high currents, yet it can be scraped clean with a wire brush and you may lose 5% of the metal max (takes a whopping 10 Seconds) and the contact will work fine for a very long time. I've done it on all my vehicles with no issues, ever.

Not all parts need to be "switched" ....(you dog gone "part switchers")...btw Im 100% kidding about the "dog gone part switcher" comment. yet I don't mind extending the life of certain parts with simple steps such a scraping a metal contact clean...to me I makes sence and I take that $36.oo Plus tax and use it for my Synthetinc oil change.

Seriously, many people here don't do there own service and mess with starters like some of us... and that $36.00 for parts turns into $150.00 when a tech has to put them in for you. OR how about maybe $500.00 after a Evil dealer "Service Writer" get there hands on your service ticket. You get my drift??
And please don't act like some dealer "service writers" wouldent charge $500.00 for a simple issue that only required "new starter contacts", And SOME Service writer's will jack you all the time, and will continue over charge, all the time. (i said some service writers)
10 seconds with a wire brush and to me Money saved, is money earned...
Is saving some cash at the parts counter a crime?

KdF

Ok....tell us what we "Brush"?

icerunner

Like I said:
they are metal contacts... if they are REAL worn simply replace them... If they are not real worn... why not wire brush them and re use them...?

come on now, am I speaking a different language?

Seriously, here is a good example of "OLD vs New" and if the "old" contact was from my 4 runner, I would replace with new...

The Pic is contact example I'm talking about.

KdF

Gawd I wish I had a better camera. Lets review the Pic. The one on the right , in the WORN area has a thickness of 1/4 to 1/3 the one on the left. Starters WEAR the contacts, they do not get just dirty. When the contact gets WORN, the electrical current does not connect thru the contact to the plunger correctly and therefore it Clicks. NO amount of brushing is going to solve that.

English, even tho it aint Texican.

icerunner

KDF,
See #31. this is a good are the contact example of I'm talking about.
I was talking mainly about the exposed battery connection terminals for the starter

KdF

Zactly!! No fair editing when I`m replying and watchin the game. I cant get the Wifeys camera to get that close of a pic. What camera you usin anyway?

Scuse me....Dallas is tryin to screw up.

PacosTaco

Well guys, I haven't been able to get underneath the truck to be able to remove what needs to be removed and replaced/cleaned yet.

The truck is relatively clean underneath and with living in Vegas, you don't exactly see salty puddles in the streets. Most water dries up around here within 24-48 hours. The undercarriage is still pretty good looking for a 98. I'm just going to replace the contacts to start out with and then I'll let you guys know for sure. From the majority of the responses, it sounds like it's almost 99.999999999999% going to solve my problem. I'm not in so much of a rush to fix it because I have another truck, but it's not exactly a gas saver like my Taco.

Next week I go on Vacation and the Taco is getting a new set of BFG A/T's, window tint, Exhaust, a lift will be in the mix there somewhere in the future. I'm not going to spoil her much though so I'll spread out the her additions throughout the week. haha.

Oh yah she's getting new Contacts too!

Guys/Gals, thanks again for your repsonses/arguments and commitment to what makes this board the best!

Brandon

icerunner

Like I said I like to "tinker" with certain parts to get some extra life out of them. yet, I'm not going to try to create extra work for my self either by using a part that at the end of its servicable life. If I feel it needs to be replaced, I will replace it...See, some of you are not used to "chicago winters" where salt water splashes EVERY WHERE under the undercarrage corroding everything....
If I replaced things every time they were simply corroded, I would be a poor man....
(poorer than a guy who drives a 99 4 runner with 145,000 Miles....hey, it is "paid off")

GSGALLANT

I agree that you should only replace parts if you need to... nobody here is arguing that, actually. What we're saying, is that when Brandon opens his starter solenoid, what he's going to find is exactly like the picture you posted in post #31, which will mean he'll need a spare set of contacts before pulling his starter.

PS... I bought the OEM battery side contact, because of the new design with a larger contact area, but I made my own starter side contact out of 1/8" thick (I think) copper plate. Total cost = $0. It's given me no problems in the year or so since I replaced it... we'll see how it lasts for me.

Adam F

Icerunner....your clueless man.

If your starter is bad enough to be clicking, YOUR FRIGGEN CONTACTS ARE WORN OUT. They wont be just dirty, THEY ARE WORN.

Its different than a battery cable. A battery cable doesnt see constant arcing like the contacts do.

If you've gone through the trouble of pulling the starter, REPLACE THE GD'ING CONTACTS ALREADY.

And again, yes, your starter solenoid is completly sealed, no water should be getting in there. I think YOUR the only one who has problems with water/salt corroding your starter contacts.

icerunner

My responce is in BOLD

1st off I have no problem admiting when/if I am wrong ...yet, our opinions are a little subjective and is not black and white issue....I said " if any contact is "questionable" then replace them and I they just have a slight layer of crud..."lightly clean and reuse.."


Also When you say "no water should be getting in there (the starter) a starter is not water proof and I guess that depends on how high the snow and slushy puddles are that one is riding through. Where I live Salt spray gets every where and all the way up to the battery cables... and even a "salt mist" is enough to corrode a contact... any contact

Hey, you are probably right, as after the starter is already "opened up" one should just replace the contacts if they are questionable...and quit messing around with the issue. Believe me, I don't like to do things twice, and when "push comes to shove" I will replace the dam part and not fool around with it for a long time.
However If a contact is just corroded yet still intact, I'm going to "sand it clean" and reuse....
like I said, thats not a crime... is it?

Maj

I think the reason Toyota makes an issue out of the thickness of the contacts is that the plunger bottoms out against the housing. If the contacts are worn, there ends up being an air gap between the plunger and the contacts. Air is a very poor conductor so you end up getting a click. So all the contact polishing in the world ain't gonna improve things.