!!Speedy's Supercharger Thread!!
04-03-2007, 03:03 PM
#22
Registered User
04-03-2007, 03:07 PM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
There's no hot fluid going to the gauge. Autometer uses Ether in a capillary that goes to a bulb that's placed in contact with the fluid. The ether in the line moves the needle on the gauge. Worse case scenario you pinch the capillary and .0001 oz of Ether evaporate into the atmosphere. Knowing that does it change your opinion?
04-03-2007, 03:53 PM
#25
Contributing Member
Gadget had mentioned something about not "running pressure lines into the cab" here: http://www.gadgetonline.com/Gauges.htm and I had probably heard some myth about smelling the oil through the line or something. 
04-03-2007, 04:59 PM
#26
Registered User
Thread Starter
Gadget had mentioned something about not "running pressure lines into the cab" here: http://www.gadgetonline.com/Gauges.htm and I had probably heard some myth about smelling the oil through the line or something.
I'm gonna give the mechanical gauge a shot as I think the Ether in the tube is a safe solution and shouldn't cause any issues.
Now to my next question. Any ideas where to purchase plastic stock to do something like this?
GAUGES
I'm also going to look into any local custom shops to make up something nicer, but am gonna fall back on this if needed.
04-03-2007, 07:10 PM
#27
Contributing Member
Now to my next question. Any ideas where to purchase plastic stock to do something like this?
GAUGES
04-04-2007, 05:19 AM
#28
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AutoMeters line of electronic boost gauges are very nice.
They use a vacuum line from the boost port to the MAP sensor and then the signals are sent to the gauge electronically.
They have some nice features, they can record and play back max boost and on some you can set warning limits so the gauge will alert you when that level is reached with a LED or flash the whole gauge.
In my XRunner I installed the full AutoMeter NEXUS line and that uses a MAP based boost gauge. On each of those gauges I can program warning levels and when they are reached the whole gauge flashes red.
In that setup I have boost, EGT, Oil Pressure, Oil temp, and fuel pressure. In the mix I also have the Innovate LC-1/XD-16 gauge combo for AFR.
The NEXUS setup allows you to vary the color of the gauges to match your interior or to have them all randomly rotate color. When they power up and shut down they go through a fancy wake up and shut down display. I could do without that option and wish there was a way to turn it off. When off the gauges are blacked out.
When setting up your gauge array, I would suggest the most critical gauge be the wideband AFR display, then fuel pressure. I think those ar the most critical and will tell you right away something is wrong before other gauges will tell you. Next would be oil pressure, oil temp, then EGT. The very last and least important is a boost gauge. Boost gauges are cool but really are not needed. If you are curious about your boost level you can connect to the URD Performance Calibration Unit and its MAP sensor will tell you what your boost is.
Gadget
They use a vacuum line from the boost port to the MAP sensor and then the signals are sent to the gauge electronically.
They have some nice features, they can record and play back max boost and on some you can set warning limits so the gauge will alert you when that level is reached with a LED or flash the whole gauge.
In my XRunner I installed the full AutoMeter NEXUS line and that uses a MAP based boost gauge. On each of those gauges I can program warning levels and when they are reached the whole gauge flashes red.
In that setup I have boost, EGT, Oil Pressure, Oil temp, and fuel pressure. In the mix I also have the Innovate LC-1/XD-16 gauge combo for AFR.
The NEXUS setup allows you to vary the color of the gauges to match your interior or to have them all randomly rotate color. When they power up and shut down they go through a fancy wake up and shut down display. I could do without that option and wish there was a way to turn it off. When off the gauges are blacked out.
When setting up your gauge array, I would suggest the most critical gauge be the wideband AFR display, then fuel pressure. I think those ar the most critical and will tell you right away something is wrong before other gauges will tell you. Next would be oil pressure, oil temp, then EGT. The very last and least important is a boost gauge. Boost gauges are cool but really are not needed. If you are curious about your boost level you can connect to the URD Performance Calibration Unit and its MAP sensor will tell you what your boost is.
Gadget
04-04-2007, 06:01 AM
#29
Contributing Member
Sweet, I'm subscribing to this thread 
Now, i'm going to do some blabbing... 
In the overall scheme of things, the mechanical boost gauge is the least important gauge in your setup. More than anything it just shows you if you're in boost or not.
That being said, I'm going to be on the other side of the coin and say I think there are some real benefits to the MAP sensor gauge (enough to outweight the price tag, I dunno). When you live down at sea level, the difference between what an MAP sees and what a calibrated mechanical gauge sees is nil; but when you're at altitude, there is a huge difference between the boost gauge's reading and the MAP reading. This has to do with the fact that the mechanical gauge is literally "gauge pressure" while the MAP sensor puts out "absolute pressure." 7 psi on my boost gauge is literally more like 5 psi absolute here in Los Alamos.
I plan to go with a pair of XD-16 gauges in an MTS system because of exactly what Gadget is saying, in that the boost gauge is the least useful one. Still, I want to be able to see it now and then and with the MTS I'll be able to change one of the gauges to MAP boost if I want to, or I can make it display something like tranny temp or oil pressure instead. I would much prefer XD-16 to an MAP boost gauge, since the XD-16 can display a whole host of metrics and they are in similar price categories.
You should attach the tranny temp gauge to the line that comes directly out of your torque converter and goes to the cooler. This is where your fluid will be hottest. It might be this is the line you're talking about, I wasn't sure.
In my opinion, EGT is not really necessary with a 2.2" pulley and no W/MI. To make sure you have EGT in check for your case, keep your fuel mixture rich under boost (12:1). If you go with a smaller pulley, more fuel, and water/methanol injection in the future, you'll need an EGT gauge to make sure you're using enough water to keep things under control.
I'm not sure I see the advantage of this to just using a regular electronic gauge with temperature sender in the tranny line? 
Why are you wanting a mechanical gauge so badly in this case?
Sweet thread, I look forward to following along
Now, i'm going to do some blabbing... That being said, I'm going to be on the other side of the coin and say I think there are some real benefits to the MAP sensor gauge (enough to outweight the price tag, I dunno). When you live down at sea level, the difference between what an MAP sees and what a calibrated mechanical gauge sees is nil; but when you're at altitude, there is a huge difference between the boost gauge's reading and the MAP reading. This has to do with the fact that the mechanical gauge is literally "gauge pressure" while the MAP sensor puts out "absolute pressure." 7 psi on my boost gauge is literally more like 5 psi absolute here in Los Alamos.
I plan to go with a pair of XD-16 gauges in an MTS system because of exactly what Gadget is saying, in that the boost gauge is the least useful one. Still, I want to be able to see it now and then and with the MTS I'll be able to change one of the gauges to MAP boost if I want to, or I can make it display something like tranny temp or oil pressure instead. I would much prefer XD-16 to an MAP boost gauge, since the XD-16 can display a whole host of metrics and they are in similar price categories.
I'll be ordering a mechanical tranny temp gauge at the same time. There's an option to get an adapter to attach this tranny temp gauge to the hard line coming out of the tranny. Anyone gone that route? Seems you have to cut the hard line and splice this adapter in with included compression fittings. Anyone got other ideas?
I've checked with a professional tuner and his advice was to skip the EGT gauge. He said that as long as AFRs are in line and I have a permanently installed AFR gauge, then the EGT was overkill. He said back in the day people used EGTs to tune with as wideband gauges were very expensive but since they've come down in price hardly anyone uses EGTs anymore.
There's no hot fluid going to the gauge. Autometer uses Ether in a capillary that goes to a bulb that's placed in contact with the fluid. The ether in the line moves the needle on the gauge. Worse case scenario you pinch the capillary and .0001 oz of Ether evaporate into the atmosphere. Knowing that does it change your opinion?
Why are you wanting a mechanical gauge so badly in this case?Sweet thread, I look forward to following along
04-04-2007, 06:56 AM
#30
I have been through the progression of EGT gauges, various pressure and temperature sensors, wideband O2, etc. If I could do it all over again I would stick with two things--the wideband O2 and a ScanGauge II.
I had complete control of the fueling on my turbo Supra with the turn of a few knobs and I quickly learned that an EGT gauge will show hotter temperatures when the engine is lean and when the engine is over-fueled. The concept behind the latter is the exhaust temperatures are increased from excess fuel burning in the exhaust stream. You can try and tune around it, but it's better to know your exact air/fuel ratio via a wideband than to try and guess with an EGT gauge.
With the ScanGauge II, you have access to something like 40 different engine sensors (mass air flow velocity, intake temp, coolant temp, fuel trim, open loop versus closed loop, etc.) that come from your OBD-II port.
I had complete control of the fueling on my turbo Supra with the turn of a few knobs and I quickly learned that an EGT gauge will show hotter temperatures when the engine is lean and when the engine is over-fueled. The concept behind the latter is the exhaust temperatures are increased from excess fuel burning in the exhaust stream. You can try and tune around it, but it's better to know your exact air/fuel ratio via a wideband than to try and guess with an EGT gauge.
With the ScanGauge II, you have access to something like 40 different engine sensors (mass air flow velocity, intake temp, coolant temp, fuel trim, open loop versus closed loop, etc.) that come from your OBD-II port.
04-04-2007, 07:00 AM
#31
Registered User
Thread Starter
The NEXUS setup allows you to vary the color of the gauges to match your interior or to have them all randomly rotate color. When they power up and shut down they go through a fancy wake up and shut down display. I could do without that option and wish there was a way to turn it off. When off the gauges are blacked out.
Gadget
Gadget
In the overall scheme of things, the mechanical boost gauge is the least important gauge in your setup. More than anything it just shows you if you're in boost or not.
That being said, I'm going to be on the other side of the coin and say I think there are some real benefits to the MAP sensor gauge (enough to outweight the price tag, I dunno). When you live down at sea level, the difference between what an MAP sees and what a calibrated mechanical gauge sees is nil; but when you're at altitude, there is a huge difference between the boost gauge's reading and the MAP reading. This has to do with the fact that the mechanical gauge is literally "gauge pressure" while the MAP sensor puts out "absolute pressure." 7 psi on my boost gauge is literally more like 5 psi absolute here in Los Alamos.
That being said, I'm going to be on the other side of the coin and say I think there are some real benefits to the MAP sensor gauge (enough to outweight the price tag, I dunno). When you live down at sea level, the difference between what an MAP sees and what a calibrated mechanical gauge sees is nil; but when you're at altitude, there is a huge difference between the boost gauge's reading and the MAP reading. This has to do with the fact that the mechanical gauge is literally "gauge pressure" while the MAP sensor puts out "absolute pressure." 7 psi on my boost gauge is literally more like 5 psi absolute here in Los Alamos.
Originally Posted by mastacox
You should attach the tranny temp gauge to the line that comes directly out of your torque converter and goes to the cooler. This is where your fluid will be hottest. It might be this is the line you're talking about, I wasn't sure.
Originally Posted by mastacox
In my opinion, EGT is not really necessary with a 2.2" pulley and no W/MI. To make sure you have EGT in check for your case, keep your fuel mixture rich under boost (12:1). If you go with a smaller pulley, more fuel, and water/methanol injection in the future, you'll need an EGT gauge to make sure you're using enough water to keep things under control.
Originally Posted by mastacox
I'm not sure I see the advantage of this to just using a regular electronic gauge with temperature sender in the tranny line? Why are you wanting a mechanical gauge so badly in this case?
Why are you wanting a mechanical gauge so badly in this case?
04-04-2007, 07:28 AM
#32
Contributing Member
Last edited by mt_goat; 04-04-2007 at 07:30 AM.
04-04-2007, 08:25 AM
#33
Registered User
Thread Starter
I have been through the progression of EGT gauges, various pressure and temperature sensors, wideband O2, etc. If I could do it all over again I would stick with two things--the wideband O2 and a ScanGauge II.
I had complete control of the fueling on my turbo Supra with the turn of a few knobs and I quickly learned that an EGT gauge will show hotter temperatures when the engine is lean and when the engine is over-fueled. The concept behind the latter is the exhaust temperatures are increased from excess fuel burning in the exhaust stream. You can try and tune around it, but it's better to know your exact air/fuel ratio via a wideband than to try and guess with an EGT gauge.
With the ScanGauge II, you have access to something like 40 different engine sensors (mass air flow velocity, intake temp, coolant temp, fuel trim, open loop versus closed loop, etc.) that come from your OBD-II port.
I had complete control of the fueling on my turbo Supra with the turn of a few knobs and I quickly learned that an EGT gauge will show hotter temperatures when the engine is lean and when the engine is over-fueled. The concept behind the latter is the exhaust temperatures are increased from excess fuel burning in the exhaust stream. You can try and tune around it, but it's better to know your exact air/fuel ratio via a wideband than to try and guess with an EGT gauge.
With the ScanGauge II, you have access to something like 40 different engine sensors (mass air flow velocity, intake temp, coolant temp, fuel trim, open loop versus closed loop, etc.) that come from your OBD-II port.
I'm planning on ordering the OBDII BR-3 as well for the OBD interface.
http://obddiagnostics.com/order.html
04-04-2007, 08:33 AM
#34
Honestly, I would pass on the BR-3 and get the ScanGauge II. I have the BR-3 and while it works great, it requires having it hooked up to the laptop in the truck. I don't travel with one, so if I have a problem on a trip, there is nothing the BR-3 can do for me. With the ScanGauge (which only costs about $50 more than the BR-3), you will have access to check codes and read engine sensors in the truck at all times. Want to buy my BR-3?
04-04-2007, 08:42 AM
#35
Registered User
Thread Starter
Honestly, I would pass on the BR-3 and get the ScanGauge II. I have the BR-3 and while it works great, it requires having it hooked up to the laptop in the truck. I don't travel with one, so if I have a problem on a trip, there is nothing the BR-3 can do for me. With the ScanGauge (which only costs about $50 more than the BR-3), you will have access to check codes and read engine sensors in the truck at all times. Want to buy my BR-3?
04-04-2007, 10:20 AM
#36
Registered User
Kind of like this?
http://www.break.com/index/ford_recalls_trucks.html
http://www.break.com/index/ford_recalls_trucks.html
And Paddl'in is right... I have a bum O2 sensor right now which is reporting way lean, so the ECU is dumping fuel like a banshee, and my exhaust temps are up.
04-04-2007, 10:31 AM
#37
Contributing Member
04-04-2007, 12:23 PM
#38
Registered User
04-04-2007, 01:43 PM
#40
Contributing Member
In the interest of reducing the net off-topic banter of the thread up to this point, I will now reply in one-word sentences.
Yup.
Yay.
Boring.
Ok.
I live at 800 feet above sea level here in middle TN. I think the MAP would be important at higher elevations, but I don't think for my scenario it's worth the extra $130. I'm no cheap skate or anything, and I'll pay more for things if they're worth it, but I don't want to spend money on things I don't really need so that I can use it to go towards things that are required.
Yay.
