Texas_Ace

Like I said before, remove elbow, drive truck.

If you want more power (which it badly needs IMO) then pick your boost option of choice.

Personally Turbo > supercharger ALLLLLLL day long. Been there done that with the supercharger. Maxed it out as far as it will go. While it was fun it was FAR FAR from optimal or up to my standards. I was also lucky to have ~300whp maxed out.

A turbo setup should make that as a starting point with proper fuel mods. Check out clownmeats thread on remote mount turbo charging. It is a cheap and simple option for turboing the 5vz.

Can be done for less then a supercharged setup as well. I really see no reason to go supercharged except for a few special situations. Particularly withe rising prices on superchargers and the increasing need to rebuild any that you do find and those prices are going up as well.

yodafan93

both definitely

donomite49

does anyone know if the supercharger is still available new?
i have a new sc in the box that i bought when i did my engine swap.

TA what turbo setup are you planning? a remote like clownmeats or a traditional turbo setup?

i could go either direction since i have a sc but could sell it and go turbo.

also how expensive do you think a basic setup would be?

Texas_Ace

No, the superchargers have been out of production for a few years now. Even the rebuild parts are getting harder to come by.

Personally will be doing a fancier turbo setup then most would need. The end result should be a turbo setup capable of supporting around 900whp+. I have not fully decided on if it will be a hybrid remote mount or top mount. Comes down to budget, remote is cheaper.

The turbo can be done for anything from $1000 to $10,000 depending on how you went about it. Clownmeats build is a good example of the cheapest method. It works fine and I would take that over a supercharger for sure.

Personally I will be upgrading a few parts for better performance over what he has. Such as a better turbo, better turbo placement ect.

Really depends on goals though. You should be able to put together a reasonable kit for under $2k though if you can either fab up your own exhaust parts or have a good shop that can do the work for a fair price.

Capt. Red Beard

This may be a dumb question, but what about a supercharger and a turbo?

It that possible? Or even worth it?

Texas_Ace

No such thing as a dumb question.

Twincharging can be done and some cars even have this from the factory. In our case though the stock supercharger is FAR from ideal for this setup. Even with the right sized supercharger (it is way too small period for the engine) the cost would be extreme to get it running along with a LOT of hassles.

I seriously considered this a few years ago, did all the research and math. Came to the conclusion it was just not worth it, better off going with a smaller turbo if you need lot end power.

The best option for improving spool on a turbo if it is needed is a small shot of nitrous. Even a small 25hp shot will greatly speed up the spool and used in this method the nitrous lasts a REALLY long time. Something like 200++ pulls since it would only fire for less then a second to spool the turbo and then turn off.

With a V6 though lag is not really an issue if you properly size the turbo. You could size it to basically spool off idle if you wanted, just would be limited to about the same power as a supercharger and it is totally unneeded to spool that low. Even the supercharger doesn't generally make full boost until ~2k rpm just due to how fast the RPM's shoot up.

If you are an auto then it is even less important as the stock converter stalls around ~2k and you don't care about anything below that. Get the converter high stalled (WELL worth it BTW) and it will bump it up to around 3k and that is the new number you care about for spool.

Capt. Red Beard

Ok, and what kind of HP increase would that kinda setup have? I'm also assuming you'd loose some mpg from the extra HP?

Texas_Ace

Which setup, twincharging? Well seeing as it would be all custom you could build it for whatever power level you wanted. It is very inefficient though so it puts a lot more stress on the engine and yes it would also reduce MPG vs a turbo or supercharger alone.

Superchargers and turbos actually generally net an increase in MPG. I gained about ~4mpg when boosted with meth injection.

Capt. Red Beard

Ok good to know.

With the remote turbo like clownmeat's, is there anything else you think would be worth changing/adding?

I've read through most of the thread. I still have much to learn and research before I consider this project.

I use my 4Runner for work as a DD. So I need to keep that in mind too. I'd rather get better mpg then HP, but with adding something like a turbo, I may be able to get both?

Not trying to get a 5vz to get 40mpg or anything, just as good as I can get it.

Texas_Ace

As a rule I tell people to plan on no real change in MPG when adding boost IF driven in the same manner. Then take and boost in MPG as a bonus.

These trucks don't get very good MPG, not really any ways around this sadly. Got to move to a newer/better engine for that. What this engine does do is last for stinking ever.

se7enine

iTrader: (2)

Going to need a small turbo if you want boost and mpg's, at that point then why bother. Might as well get a v8, or get a motor that was built for a turbo because that 3.4 that you added that turbo to now just lost half its life span. Would be cheaper in the long run to just buy a whole different car that has a turbo stock as dd I think. That's what I did.

Texas_Ace

False on basically all counts.

Firstly a bigger turbo will net you better MPG then a small one due to better VE and less restriction. Also the extra lag means you will not going into boost as often while daily driving.

Secondly the 5vz WAS designed for boost and lasts forever with it. The Z in 5vz designates an engine designed for boost. Just look at all the factory supercharged 5vz's running around with well over 200k miles.

It would be cheaper to buy another car if your goal is to go fast. Heck a $1000 civic would be faster. Toss $1000 of mods at it and it would be WAY faster.

That said some guys want the 4runner to be faster for practical uses or just because.

se7enine

iTrader: (2)

Bigger turbo needs bigger injectors and fuel pump unless you tune accordingly to keep from running too lean or rich I would think. Maybe two small turbos so one keeps the other spooled for less lag. How would you tune for a turbo/supercharger? Are there many options for ecu tuning or piggy backs?

Texas_Ace

You don't need anything different fueling wise for a big turbo then you do for a tiny one. At the same power level they will both need the same fuel requirements. Now the bigger turbo can make more power when pushed but that doesn't mean you have to push it.

It is also myth that twin turbos is better for spool then a single. There is a reason that all the supras now days switch over to a single turbo as one of the first mods. With twin turbos you also have twin restrictions, twin bearing drag and twin inefficiencys. Plus with modern turbo choices being what they are a single turbo is virtually always the best option.

Proper tuning is needed no matter what turbo you go with. That is a moot issue, same goes for superchargers. There are lots of different options, standalone is the best but also the most costly by far.

Second best is something like an AEM FIC setup to run the URD extra fuel rail. This way it still drives like stock until you are in boost then the extra injectors kick in.

Capt. Red Beard

Well as is my 96 has just over 200k. I'm mostly interested in better mpg. Still knowing its a 4Runner, and probably will never get over 30mpg.

More power would be nice, but I'll never tow anything, or race it on any level. I regularly drive it conservatively. Usually keep it under 2000rpms.

I was wondering about water and a turbo. How does that work? Especially with the cheeper turbo option (external?). Looked like that setup was under the runner? Not talking about deep 2ft+ crossings, but rain, and occasional <2ft flooding I've come across out here in CO.

Also wondering about a dual turbo setup. One before, and a second after? I need to read more about them to better understand HOW they work more. I get the basic idea of cramming more air into the engine though.

Texas_Ace

A turbo is for more power, if you have no interest in that, then like I said before, remove elbow, drive truck, enjoy.

You will be lucky to get 25mpg driving it conservatively to be honest. Best I ever got was ~22mpg. If MPG is really that important it is time to move onto another truck and/or engine.

Water/meth injection works GREAT with boost of any kind. See the link in my sig for some videos on the subject.

If you look at clownmeats thread he posted some videos of him doing some off-roading with his turbo setup without an issue. Properly built I see no reason it would be.

Don't even waste brainpower on any kind of twin turbo setup. Totally unneeded and will net you worse results for your goals. Twin turbos are used in 1 of 2 situations.

The biggest reason is packaging. Either the owner wants a balanced engine bay look or they just can't easily fit a big single turbo. There are other issues that fit into here as well.

The other reason is for running stupid high pressure ratios, such as diesels that run 100psi+.

se7enine

iTrader: (2)

Texas you got 22 MPG with your supercharger?

Texas_Ace

That was the best on an all highway roadtrip. Generally was mid-high teens with the way I drive and meth injection.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

I like reading everything you write Future booster here.

RSR

Others covered it, but the ultimate goal is to get more oxygen molecules, not air, into your engine.

How do you do that? By increasing air flow or increasing air density. I think Diesel engines are the easiest to understand in that regard. Adding a turbo to diesel engines increases performance by 50% to 60% (forced induction air flow, compresses air for greater density -- same can be accomplished with reducing restrictions in air intake, air ram, supercharger, etc, to various degrees). The problem with compressing air is that it produces heat, which makes the air and oxygen molecules less dense. Cooler air has more dense oxygen atoms/more oxygen. More oxygen means more complete combustion of fuel in engine and allows the engine to add add'l fuel to each cylinder, which means more power. And cooler air also eliminates worries of predetonation and reduces knocking. Adding an intercooler onto a diesel engine increases performance by 15-20% above the forced air induction below.

Other's touched on the need to replace the fender tube with something less restrictive -- I prefer mandrel bent exhaust tubing for anything with bends on the intake (don't have your gen vehicle or the 3.4, or rather don't have the 3.4, yet!)

But with the stock airbox, you want a high flow filter that actually filters, like True Flow, not K&N or equivalent... http://www.burtmanindustries.com/zoo..._truflo_96u_v6