kevin444

how many of you guys are upgrading from a 3rd gen with 16" wheels im trying to get an idea of performance from that.

noahrexion

THe answer IMO is no...

SS lines will improve feel only; unless of course your stock lines are heating up and swelling/cracking or something and leaking.

A larger pad-rotors surface and all that will only help braking power (im talking totally stock right now, no towing...nothing) is for some reason the stock brakes don't have the ability to lock up the wheels. Heat resistance is the main reason there are such large brakes around. Failure after repetetive stops or heat build up can definitely effect smaller settups, so if upgrading to larger settups there is always an advantage. They alsooffer over the stocks is a bit more bite that the stockers(which is very useful for towing, repetetive stops, really hot climates, downhill stopping...etc). In this case I can definitely see upgrading for sure. But what Im saying is that if the stocks are in good working order, arent tired and worn out and can stop the runner efficiently than the ONLY reason i see for upgrading to larger stuff is for heat resistance issues....

But if you guys are upgrading runners that arent doing any of the aforementioned duties, will you still notice the difference? Well maybe, but only if for some reason the stocks weren't working up to par. I know my runners stockies (16" big brakes) can lock my sticky geolanders up at any given moment. I don't tow, carry heavy loads or any of that... so I don't see how I would benefit from upgrading considering that my stocks are up to par.

Anyhow, Im not arguing anyones proof that they have noticed better braking, but I am just asking what the purpose of it was for? In what cases did you notice the improvement. I know tons of people that upgrade with no real effects or changes, yet they think and feel likes its better mentally so that carries a lot of weight. No wonder many upgrade from warped things and old worn out braking systems and feel a difference... even if you went back to all new OEM stuff you would prolly say "holy cow! what a difference"

Anyhow, a little off topic To those that have done the upgrade... why and for what purpose? Thanks

yota5VZFE

you are right on that one. if your brake system is up to par, there is no reason for an upgrade. what I usually do going downhill or if I want to stop the vehicle quickly, I shift from D to 2 and then L (as needed), this is called engine braking. I use engine braking alot if I want to stop the 4Runner quickly or when going down a steep hill. Not only it provides a great stopping power with "engine braking" and at the same time, you don't need to step very hard on the brake pedal and hence, your won't heat up the rotors and less chance for of warped rotors. If you have never use engine braking before and you always rely on the brake pedal to help you stop, your rotors will certainly heat up quickly. No wonder some of you always complained about warped rotors on the 3rd Gen. As long as you use engine braking if you need to brake hard, you will be fine.

Racer944

If heat is a huge issue, a cheap way to boost your performance is with some ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid. We have used it since day one in our race cars, and only recently put on some braided brake lines, because ours were finally cracking. If you can lock up your brakes, then there should never be a need for upgraded size brakes, unless of course you are racing your 4Runner and need possibly fractions of a second off your lap times Don't think that a Tundra brake upgrade will REALLY be necessary, unless you are towing down Everest in the full-on summer. But then again, nothing beats the feeling of good brakes...

Also, as for the question that it will increase brake performance, it's not true, on a strict definition. It will increase the possibility, but it will not actually let you brake harder, which depends on 1. braking technique (not SLAMMING the brake and locking them up) and 2. Tire "stickiness". As long as you can exceed the traction that is produced by #2 while staying smooth on the brake, there will never be a need to upgrade brakes, as you cannot brake better than your tires allow. If, however, you cannot lock 'em up, then upgrade, it feels awesome, I personally love the feeling of good brakes.

ebelen1

Wow, you guys amaze me at the knowledge on this board. First, I don't know squat about cars/trucks as most can tell from my posts.

To answer the question, I got my truck less than 6 months ago with original pads and rotors at about 90k miles. It had the crap 15" wheels standard and the smaller braking system. Knowing that the brakes should be going out soon and reading up on this board, I said let's try this Tundra conversion.

Before the conversion, I upsized to 16x8" wheels and 265/75/16 tires (Geolanders as well). My truck was having a hard time stopping and required multiple pumps before slowing down. Did the fact that the brakes were old and needed replacement affect my braking ability; sure. Since I needed to change brakes and the additional costs for the conversion were the calipers only, I figured why not. BTW, the additional cost was $250 for new calipers. (I knew I needed new rotors as I had warping and I needed new pads, which cost the same for Tundras or 4runners.)

To be honest, I don't understand all the physics with braking but my truck stops way better. Could it be I had old brakes and they needed replacement, yes. Would I have gotten better braking from new 4runner rotors, yes. Was an additional $250 was worth while, yes; even though you say that I don't get better braking. Hope this answers your question.

Racer944

I'm not dogging the mod, I fully understand and am wanting to upgrade, when I need to fix them. I will also be doing the rear disc swap. What I was trying to explain, however, is that if your brakes are in good condition, this upgrade is not going to help you out, at max braking (threshold braking) as long as you have the same tires. Now, if you go with a tire that has more traction along with upgrading the brakes, you will notice a HUGE difference in braking difference, but mainly based on the stickier tires.

noahrexion

Racer944 has just supplemented my argument perfectly thank you sir...

Good thread! I just would like to know some real world results for those that tow and really use the upgrade!

Racer944

thought that might help you out. Also, it could help you break faster by completely unloading your wallet, just thought about that...

shazaam

here is how I look at it .. when it's time to replace your rotors and pads.

all you do is upgrade to tundra rotors and pad .. the additional cost is minimal.

the only thing extra is the cost of the calipers .. which is about $50-60/caliper

so for an extra $100 you can upgrade your system .. so why not do it?

Racer944

Like I said before, it's not a bad mod, I'm not trying to insult it. When it's time, do it. I don't know if I can, I'm very happy with my brakes at this point, but I would do it when I need to do a major overhaul on my brake system. I'm just saying, hold off until you NEED to fix it up. Even then, TRUE increases in performance will only be acheived with better tires, when comparing equally good condition braking systems. So again, I would do it, if possible, when the time comes, in addition to high-performance brake fluid. I would love to find a 2nd gen brake upgrade, so if anyone has one, I'd appreciate a link to it.

Cebby

Unless your calipers were sticking or seized, I don't see the reason to upgrade calipers UNLESS you are going for more performance (larger or more pistons). If you can lock up your tires, your ABS isn't working. More brake surface will stop faster (lockup not withstanding) - simple physics.

Heat is the enemy. That's why there is a proliferation of slotted and crossdrilled rotors - they are supposed to keep the rotors cooler by evacuating the hot gas the builds up between the pad and rotor surface. It works - personal experience. My 4Runner has slotted rotors up front and my 2000 JGC has Stillen crossdrilled rotors at all 4 corners - there is no comparison to stock/solid vented rotors.

Another reason to upgrade brakes is the increased rotating mass of big rubber. Although not the case here, considerable heavier rotating mass with reveal poor brakes.

A rear disc conversion is a nice option, but your rear brakes aren't doing much of the work. Front Range not makes a full floater with discs for Tacos. I'm not sure if this would work in 4Runners though - contact Brian and see what he says.

http://www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com/floater.htm

Racer944

About the ABS thing, I HATE ABS, I truly think it is a spawn of Satan himself. I don't like driving with it, and have activated it more than a few times in other cars, but do not nearly approach it's limits in the 4Runner, thus why I didn't address the issue. Do you know of any big brake kits for for 2nd gens? I thought I had seen a rear disc kit before, but I'm not sure where...

Cebby

I haven't seen any big brake kits, only slotted and CD. The link above is also for 2nd Gens.

Racer944

So a full floating rear axle is kinda like a HUGE improvement, if I'm reading this correctly?

Cebby

Yup...