Dilemma - Red Milky Coolant - need $.02 on my suspected cause.
12-04-2008, 06:05 PM
#23
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And for you and 111db, I grew up in Avon, Lorain County. I miss all the trees and green and Cedar Point.
12-07-2008, 03:30 PM
#25
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Hey man,
Same thing happend to my 99' the other day I flushed over 20 quarts of cheap ATF through it the other day...Im hoping for the best as well Waiting for my new radiator to come in so I can install it...Let me know how it goes with the trans.
Same thing happend to my 99' the other day I flushed over 20 quarts of cheap ATF through it the other day...Im hoping for the best as well Waiting for my new radiator to come in so I can install it...Let me know how it goes with the trans.
12-08-2008, 05:06 AM
#27
That's good news! ...A lot of people would sell the truck before putting a couple thousand dollars into the trans...People get weird about this...thinking..what will happen next?Motor going to go next and cost a couple K$ next week......
12-08-2008, 05:09 AM
#28
Just called a tranny shop to do the flush for me and they told me that I ABSOLUTELY have to have the tranny rebuilt. If even a drop of antifreeze got into the tranny, the seals will swell and it will toast itself within 1000 miles. I'm not buyin it..but wonder what you guys think?
Your thoughts please....????
Thanks
Your thoughts please....????
Thanks
yup. any water in the auto tranny....the thing will implode eventually
clutch parts are glued on and the glue dissolves with water. but ya never
know you might get away with it. that is the big mystery. usually you can't
get away with no rebuild
a nice fat drop of water has 120 places it can hide in the tranny
no matter how much you flush it. then will creep around
you need a rebuild.
12-08-2008, 05:28 AM
#29
Contributing Member
If water is really so bad I guess you could run without a cooler for a short time and get the ATF up to about 250*F (after flushing a few times) and help boil the water out. I wouldn't try doing that without a trans temp gauge though. I've heard that it's the antifreeze that is a bigger problem though, don't know if that's true or not. Appearantly the Aisin trannys are pretty tough.
12-08-2008, 09:24 PM
#32
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I did some research on this issue. Here is my $.02 on this.
The transmission operates with an oil pressure of 40-50 psi, the cooling system has a rad cap that releases pressure around 13 psi. Therefore if the tranny cooler were to crack it will fill the cooling system with tranny fluid. No water would be able to go into the tranny until the tranny no longer has oil pressure, meaning that all the transmission fluid is gone.
That 40-50 psi is the reason that you guys have red coolant blowing out of the cap and also into the puke tank. It easily opens the 13 lb rad cap.
Therefore as long as you stop driving the car ASAP you should be fine. There is the slight chance that the two could mix when the car is not on but this amount would be minimal.
The transmission operates with an oil pressure of 40-50 psi, the cooling system has a rad cap that releases pressure around 13 psi. Therefore if the tranny cooler were to crack it will fill the cooling system with tranny fluid. No water would be able to go into the tranny until the tranny no longer has oil pressure, meaning that all the transmission fluid is gone.
That 40-50 psi is the reason that you guys have red coolant blowing out of the cap and also into the puke tank. It easily opens the 13 lb rad cap.
Therefore as long as you stop driving the car ASAP you should be fine. There is the slight chance that the two could mix when the car is not on but this amount would be minimal.
12-09-2008, 03:03 AM
#33
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The chance is not minimal that coolant will go into the transmission. It's actually pretty high. As soon as you shut the truck off, you have 13 psi in the cooling system and atmospheric pressure in the transmission... well a bit less than 13 psi because now there's an opening in the system and your coolant will be boiling. The pressure will be maintained just a bit lower than the pressure that would be required to keep the coolant (at whatever temperature it's at) from boiling, but it will still be above atmospheric for a little while.
Now, flow will reverse, and the new "mixture" will make it's way into the transmission. Since the cooling system is probably at full temperature at the time of the rupture, pressure will be maintained in the system for a little while (assuming the break in the rad is not too big). I'm not sure what the boiling point of a coolant/ATF milkshake is, but I assume it's higher than just coolant, so maybe one will get lucky and the system "boiling" will be kept to a minimum, so that pressure will drop quickly.
Now, flow will reverse, and the new "mixture" will make it's way into the transmission. Since the cooling system is probably at full temperature at the time of the rupture, pressure will be maintained in the system for a little while (assuming the break in the rad is not too big). I'm not sure what the boiling point of a coolant/ATF milkshake is, but I assume it's higher than just coolant, so maybe one will get lucky and the system "boiling" will be kept to a minimum, so that pressure will drop quickly.
12-09-2008, 04:00 AM
#34
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Yeah as soon as you shut down the pressure in the tranny line goes to zero but the radiator is still under pressure...therefore coolant into tranny. Unless you are running Evans waterless coolant and a zero pressure cooling system.
12-09-2008, 04:25 AM
#35
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Can we agree to disagree?
yup. any water in the auto tranny....the thing will implode eventually
clutch parts are glued on and the glue dissolves with water. but ya never
know you might get away with it. that is the big mystery. usually you can't
get away with no rebuild
a nice fat drop of water has 120 places it can hide in the tranny
no matter how much you flush it. then will creep around
you need a rebuild.
clutch parts are glued on and the glue dissolves with water. but ya never
know you might get away with it. that is the big mystery. usually you can't
get away with no rebuild
a nice fat drop of water has 120 places it can hide in the tranny
no matter how much you flush it. then will creep around
you need a rebuild.
I disagree with that somewhat and just becuase you believe it to be true, does not make it true.. There is some truth in that and we all know that transsmissions cant run on water/coolant mixture... and YET A single drop of water and your trans is screwed?.....
Sorry man, lost me there and in my opinion that's spreading some misinformation (on this topic). Man, AAMCO would LOVE to have you working for them as there national spokes person...(haha j/k)
AAMCO really stands for:
All Automatics Must Come Out
trans shops make ALOT of money removing a trans even IF they find NO issue at all...Bottom line they recomend removal and the customer has to pay for the trans removal regardless...great strategy...
now seriously mixing coolant and trans fluid is terrible for a trans, YET A single drop of water?..... come on now, that is simply false.. Water is unavoidable and is very common in the engine and trans through condensation.
water condensation occurs all most everywhere in a vehicle this is why engines have PVC valves to vent water burn off when an engine gets up to temp. Think about your windshield on a cold day...that is condensation... and it dosent just happen on the windshield it will happen on cold metal as well.. BTW trans are not 100% air tight... Case in point you couldn't go into a deep pond without water almost certanly get into your transmission.
think about the water that comes out of your tail pipe after start up...thats condensation and it adds up to alot of water..
Last edited by icerunner; 12-09-2008 at 05:06 AM.
12-09-2008, 04:46 AM
#36
Registered User
And I'm not from anywhere around there... but... it would be interesting if [Ohio4runner4x4] ever logged back in and posted his experience with his repairs now that a year has passed....
Is the bottom line here about keeping your coolant and tranny fluids flushed and healthy? I hear that ignoring the coolant eats metals and gaskets over time, contributing to blown headgaskets and coolant hoses, and heat eachangers corroding...
Is the bottom line here about keeping your coolant and tranny fluids flushed and healthy? I hear that ignoring the coolant eats metals and gaskets over time, contributing to blown headgaskets and coolant hoses, and heat eachangers corroding...
12-09-2008, 05:46 AM
#37
Do not conrfuse "line oil pressure" with cooler pressure...There is no spec for cooler pressure,The pump creates pressure and circulates it through the trans,When its all done it does a low pressure loop to the cooler and dumps into the pan......And actually "line pressure" is determined by load and max pressure happens at stall speed...Idle "line pressure" in a trans is minimal like 10psi or so..Over 50PSI at stall speed loaded..........
Think about it if "line pressure" of the cooler was 50+ PSI in a 3/8 line..when you take off a cooler line and start the vehical it would be uncontrolable...cover the floor,wallls in seconds with fluid....Which does not happen..
About the mixing,I actually believe that once the coolant get under pressue it easily over powers the low cooler pressure...That's why there will be more milk'ness in the trans,and only slight residue in the radiator..But you could loose enough coolant into the trans to cause an air pocket,hence the gurgling of overflow of radiator..
About this mixing,I do not believe the coolant in the trans fluid is what kills the trans,you would need to dilute it enough that hydraulic pressure drops,even with correct "line pressure",Then clutches might slip,sprags and valvebody would be uneffected...
What I believe is killing these transmissions is "overfilling",Even a few quarts of fluid..Dex,coolant,water,whatever..get whipped into air by the pump..once there is air bubbles,the "line pressure" dramatically falls,causing slipping,and clutch packs go south very,very fast.
I had to "restore" a few flooded vehicals many moons ago when I worked at the dealer,watrelines up to side view mirrors...we called them "mud puppies",LOL......Anyway we did flushes,manual back then...we did not have fancy machines..And they turned out fine,I do not remember any of the 30+ toyota's we did that came back for trans problems..And I remember a few that the idiots tried to drive...and had rods hanging out of the side of the bocks.......So it was not "water in trans" that would kill them...its having 2-3+quarts of water in the trans and driving and whiping air that kills..JMO...but thats my experience
Think about it if "line pressure" of the cooler was 50+ PSI in a 3/8 line..when you take off a cooler line and start the vehical it would be uncontrolable...cover the floor,wallls in seconds with fluid....Which does not happen..
About the mixing,I actually believe that once the coolant get under pressue it easily over powers the low cooler pressure...That's why there will be more milk'ness in the trans,and only slight residue in the radiator..But you could loose enough coolant into the trans to cause an air pocket,hence the gurgling of overflow of radiator..
About this mixing,I do not believe the coolant in the trans fluid is what kills the trans,you would need to dilute it enough that hydraulic pressure drops,even with correct "line pressure",Then clutches might slip,sprags and valvebody would be uneffected...
What I believe is killing these transmissions is "overfilling",Even a few quarts of fluid..Dex,coolant,water,whatever..get whipped into air by the pump..once there is air bubbles,the "line pressure" dramatically falls,causing slipping,and clutch packs go south very,very fast.
I had to "restore" a few flooded vehicals many moons ago when I worked at the dealer,watrelines up to side view mirrors...we called them "mud puppies",LOL......Anyway we did flushes,manual back then...we did not have fancy machines..And they turned out fine,I do not remember any of the 30+ toyota's we did that came back for trans problems..And I remember a few that the idiots tried to drive...and had rods hanging out of the side of the bocks.......So it was not "water in trans" that would kill them...its having 2-3+quarts of water in the trans and driving and whiping air that kills..JMO...but thats my experience
12-09-2008, 06:29 AM
#38
Contributing Member
Do not conrfuse "line oil pressure" with cooler pressure...There is no spec for cooler pressure,The pump creates pressure and circulates it through the trans,When its all done it does a low pressure loop to the cooler and dumps into the pan......And actually "line pressure" is determined by load and max pressure happens at stall speed...Idle "line pressure" in a trans is minimal like 10psi or so..Over 50PSI at stall speed loaded..........
Think about it if "line pressure" of the cooler was 50+ PSI in a 3/8 line..when you take off a cooler line and start the vehical it would be uncontrolable...cover the floor,wallls in seconds with fluid....Which does not happen..
About the mixing,I actually believe that once the coolant get under pressue it easily over powers the low cooler pressure...That's why there will be more milk'ness in the trans,and only slight residue in the radiator..But you could loose enough coolant into the trans to cause an air pocket,hence the gurgling of overflow of radiator..
About this mixing,I do not believe the coolant in the trans fluid is what kills the trans,you would need to dilute it enough that hydraulic pressure drops,even with correct "line pressure",Then clutches might slip,sprags and valvebody would be uneffected...
What I believe is killing these transmissions is "overfilling",Even a few quarts of fluid..Dex,coolant,water,whatever..get whipped into air by the pump..once there is air bubbles,the "line pressure" dramatically falls,causing slipping,and clutch packs go south very,very fast.
Think about it if "line pressure" of the cooler was 50+ PSI in a 3/8 line..when you take off a cooler line and start the vehical it would be uncontrolable...cover the floor,wallls in seconds with fluid....Which does not happen..
About the mixing,I actually believe that once the coolant get under pressue it easily over powers the low cooler pressure...That's why there will be more milk'ness in the trans,and only slight residue in the radiator..But you could loose enough coolant into the trans to cause an air pocket,hence the gurgling of overflow of radiator..
About this mixing,I do not believe the coolant in the trans fluid is what kills the trans,you would need to dilute it enough that hydraulic pressure drops,even with correct "line pressure",Then clutches might slip,sprags and valvebody would be uneffected...
What I believe is killing these transmissions is "overfilling",Even a few quarts of fluid..Dex,coolant,water,whatever..get whipped into air by the pump..once there is air bubbles,the "line pressure" dramatically falls,causing slipping,and clutch packs go south very,very fast.
12-09-2008, 08:53 AM
#39
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So I'm thinking if your radiator starts spewing red coolant, put in in park, leave the car running, grab a rag and pop the rad cap to release pressure in the radiator, then drain the radiator so no coolant can go into the tranny. Do all of this without burning yourself or overheating the motor, then have the car towed.
Yea this sucks I can see why all the automatic guys want external tranny coolers.
Yea this sucks I can see why all the automatic guys want external tranny coolers.
