22re pcv relocation for emissions question
07-20-2005, 11:40 AM
#22
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If it still advances as you gas it witht he jumper in, your TPS is either bad or out of alignment. Do the TPS checks on that link I gave, but I really think it's the cam you need to look at first. Fix the underlaying problem first, then deal with the symptoms...
07-20-2005, 12:31 PM
#25
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I called my mechanic and ask him if it would be causing any of these problems.
he said "nah, they fall out all the time, it wont hurt anything."
see this is why I try to fix my own....
he said "nah, they fall out all the time, it wont hurt anything."
see this is why I try to fix my own....
07-20-2005, 01:03 PM
#26
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Let me step in here and eat a little crow (as the old timers said).... Or at least admit ignorance.
From what I gather, you've a 4 banging '88, right ?!
Admittedly, I've no actual "hands on" experience with 'Yota's 4 cylinder work horse and have offered advice out of both general interest, and common symptom diagnosis and/or what usually is the problem given the symptoms.
For all I know, it may be perfectly normal for otherwise essential parts to fall off of the 22r series of engines and their still being able to function properly, whereas something like that would be almost catastrophic to our later model 6 bangers..., I'm not the one to say.
The man that you want to get in touch with is 4Crawler who is the hands down authority on the earlier year 'Yota's, non par.
Try PM'ing him here with what you've got going on and good luck.
From what I gather, you've a 4 banging '88, right ?!
Admittedly, I've no actual "hands on" experience with 'Yota's 4 cylinder work horse and have offered advice out of both general interest, and common symptom diagnosis and/or what usually is the problem given the symptoms.
For all I know, it may be perfectly normal for otherwise essential parts to fall off of the 22r series of engines and their still being able to function properly, whereas something like that would be almost catastrophic to our later model 6 bangers..., I'm not the one to say.
The man that you want to get in touch with is 4Crawler who is the hands down authority on the earlier year 'Yota's, non par.
Try PM'ing him here with what you've got going on and good luck.
Last edited by 94x4; 07-20-2005 at 01:45 PM.
07-20-2005, 05:56 PM
#29
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Mine are both '87's. I've had them since 89 in teh case of the p/u, and I've learned as I went. LOTS of hands on 
07-20-2005, 07:26 PM
#30
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I'm up to my elbows in hands on... lol
but its easier having this place to find opinions/info/details.
I took it to the parts store @ 15 miles away this eve, it runs great... on the back road or the highway.
I took my wrench bag and a time light, and started out the trip set to 8... not long I had to pull over and bump it back to 12.... it ran "ok" there but lacked power. on the way home I put it about... 20... 24 maybe (no scale, so who knows...) then it ran GREAT... power, quiet cruise on the hi way @60, up and down some back road hills like nothing. no knocks no pings no rattles no pops.
and wouldn't you know I forgot the gaskets... I was thinking I need to buy more ignition parts to put to my exemption $150 so I got a new coil and a fuel filter (both on the printout as "allowed parts").
in that brain fart I forgot the gasket.
tomorrow after work, I will get it.
then we will see whats under that valve cover.....
would a weak coil cause idle speed high HC count?
it was the original coil (I assume, its a Toyota part, not an aftermarket) it was rusty and dirty.
The new one is yellow
but its easier having this place to find opinions/info/details.
I took it to the parts store @ 15 miles away this eve, it runs great... on the back road or the highway.
I took my wrench bag and a time light, and started out the trip set to 8... not long I had to pull over and bump it back to 12.... it ran "ok" there but lacked power. on the way home I put it about... 20... 24 maybe (no scale, so who knows...) then it ran GREAT... power, quiet cruise on the hi way @60, up and down some back road hills like nothing. no knocks no pings no rattles no pops.
and wouldn't you know I forgot the gaskets... I was thinking I need to buy more ignition parts to put to my exemption $150 so I got a new coil and a fuel filter (both on the printout as "allowed parts").
in that brain fart I forgot the gasket.
tomorrow after work, I will get it.
then we will see whats under that valve cover.....
would a weak coil cause idle speed high HC count?
it was the original coil (I assume, its a Toyota part, not an aftermarket) it was rusty and dirty.
The new one is yellow
07-20-2005, 09:58 PM
#31
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Work it girl...!! 
Forgot the gasket ?!?!? You're blonde, right? 
Just kidding, just kidding...
No, the coil would'nt have anything to do with it and, admittedly, I fear that you may end up having to do a pretty extensive rebuild in cleaning up whatever mess your ride may be in as the missing screw may be just the tip of the iceberg... unless you actually do have a cam.
What does your ride idle at?
Forgot the gasket ?!?!? You're blonde, right?
Just kidding, just kidding...
No, the coil would'nt have anything to do with it and, admittedly, I fear that you may end up having to do a pretty extensive rebuild in cleaning up whatever mess your ride may be in as the missing screw may be just the tip of the iceberg... unless you actually do have a cam.
What does your ride idle at?
07-21-2005, 03:09 AM
#32
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Aha! The dreaded "yellow coil" syndrome! Obviously the whole problem right there, Watson! Just kidding. I don't think teh color of the coil is material at all, but it sure sounded good there for a second Actually, the coils and ignitors on these things are generally either good, or bad. They don't usually get "weak", at least as far as I've seen, which is admittedly little. A weak spark, I think, though, could possibly cause a high HC count, not burning the FA mix completely each cycle, but that's nothing more than a WAG on my part. Seems logical, but these ARE Toyotas, after all Maybe a failing wire, or spark plug, or dirty contacts in the distributor cap or on the rotor could cause a weak spark. Another possibility is the EGR system. If they get dirty, clogged, the modulator non-functional, etc, they can cause all kinds of trouble. And all sorts of different symptoms. I've read on here and on Pirate4X4 about people taking their's off and seeing the vehicle do better on teh inspection. Just as long as they don't look under the hood... But it's probably better at this point to make sure it clean and funtional.
And whatever your mechanic friend might say, no, it is NOT "normal" for things to randomly fall off the vehicle. That's what LockTite and torque specs are for! Nothing's ever just "fallen off" mine at random anyway. That's, to me, absurd.
Anyway, just FYI, the valve cover gasket, grommets, and halfmoons are reusable, you know. Unless they're old and brittle. Then it's time for new ones, definately!
Oh, yeah, I wanted to mention: "Work" is a four letter word ending in "K", and I'll thank you to watch your language on here!
Actually, the coils and ignitors on these things are generally either good, or bad. They don't usually get "weak", at least as far as I've seen, which is admittedly little. A weak spark, I think, though, could possibly cause a high HC count, not burning the FA mix completely each cycle, but that's nothing more than a WAG on my part. Seems logical, but these ARE Toyotas, after all Maybe a failing wire, or spark plug, or dirty contacts in the distributor cap or on the rotor could cause a weak spark. Another possibility is the EGR system. If they get dirty, clogged, the modulator non-functional, etc, they can cause all kinds of trouble. And all sorts of different symptoms. I've read on here and on Pirate4X4 about people taking their's off and seeing the vehicle do better on teh inspection. Just as long as they don't look under the hood... But it's probably better at this point to make sure it clean and funtional. And whatever your mechanic friend might say, no, it is NOT "normal" for things to randomly fall off the vehicle. That's what LockTite and torque specs are for! Nothing's ever just "fallen off" mine at random anyway. That's, to me, absurd.
Anyway, just FYI, the valve cover gasket, grommets, and halfmoons are reusable, you know. Unless they're old and brittle. Then it's time for new ones, definately!
Oh, yeah, I wanted to mention: "Work" is a four letter word ending in "K", and I'll thank you to watch your language on here!
07-21-2005, 04:47 AM
#33
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LOL
not blonde but sometimes I wonder....
well the coil is on the list of "allowed parts" for exemption, AND the other truck actually needs a coil, so..... make the most of the worst, right?
I dont know what the idle rpm is, I did SEE it as they were testing it but dont remember.... it idles pretty slow. He did rev it up to the limit of the idle on the macine and that did lower the output.
gotta run... !
not blonde but sometimes I wonder....
well the coil is on the list of "allowed parts" for exemption, AND the other truck actually needs a coil, so..... make the most of the worst, right?
I dont know what the idle rpm is, I did SEE it as they were testing it but dont remember.... it idles pretty slow. He did rev it up to the limit of the idle on the macine and that did lower the output.
gotta run... !
07-21-2005, 05:11 AM
#34
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If I recall, idle should be 700-900 rpm. Too much more than that and you get a surging when you hit the brakes, as the ECU is trying to cut the idle, but the idle is set too high...up and down it goes...
07-21-2005, 10:34 AM
#35
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Ok first part of the jumpering thing is if you jumper it and the idle does not change then you are not jumpering the right pins, jumpering not making connection, or something is wrong in the circuit. When you jumper the diagnostics connector correctly your CEL (check engine light) will flash when you turn the key to On or Run. This is the OBDI function. It will either flash that everything is ok, or will flash stored trouble codes. If your CEL is not flashing the jumper is not doing its job of taking the CPU out of the loop.
Another thing that could be causing the jumper to not work is if your TPS is out of adjustment or is shot. I would start here, and check it to make sure it is within spec.
Another thing that could be causing the jumper to not work is if your TPS is out of adjustment or is shot. I would start here, and check it to make sure it is within spec.
07-21-2005, 11:47 AM
#36
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Ok I did some diging for you and the two terminals you should be jumpering are as follows. From this web page. http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-dtcs-53.htm
Extracting Trouble Codes:
1. Turn the ignition switch to ON. Do not start the engine.
2. Using a jumprt wire, short terminals T (or TE1) and E1 of the check connector.
3. Read the diagnostic code as indicated by the number of flashes of the "CHECK" engine warning light.
So it is the T (test) terminal and E1(ground) to jumper out the CPU.
Try that out and see if your RPM's drop and the check engine flashes. If it does then set your timing to 5*(base) or a little higher. I would still check the TPS also first before setting the timing.
Extracting Trouble Codes:
1. Turn the ignition switch to ON. Do not start the engine.
2. Using a jumprt wire, short terminals T (or TE1) and E1 of the check connector.
3. Read the diagnostic code as indicated by the number of flashes of the "CHECK" engine warning light.
So it is the T (test) terminal and E1(ground) to jumper out the CPU.
Try that out and see if your RPM's drop and the check engine flashes. If it does then set your timing to 5*(base) or a little higher. I would still check the TPS also first before setting the timing.
Last edited by PirateFins; 07-21-2005 at 11:48 AM.
07-21-2005, 04:24 PM
#37
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thanks for that info...
I did that, it flashes 5 times, stops, then flashes once. (51?)
"Switch Condition Signal" it says on the page you posted..
what does that mean.... ?
I started it up while jumpered and when I gave it gas, it wouldn't advance, and stumbled. so I set the time to 5 btdc on the scale. shut off the engine, yanked the jumper out, restarted it and it idles fine but you cant hit the gas it stumbles and pops thru the carb like before. So I nudged the time back to where it was and it again runs fine with quick throttle response advanced like before.
but I'm making progress!
whatever "Switch Condition Signal" error code 51 is, I have it.
now I have to learn how to test the TPS.
time to search!
I did that, it flashes 5 times, stops, then flashes once. (51?)
"Switch Condition Signal" it says on the page you posted..
what does that mean.... ?
I started it up while jumpered and when I gave it gas, it wouldn't advance, and stumbled. so I set the time to 5 btdc on the scale. shut off the engine, yanked the jumper out, restarted it and it idles fine but you cant hit the gas it stumbles and pops thru the carb like before. So I nudged the time back to where it was and it again runs fine with quick throttle response advanced like before.
but I'm making progress!
whatever "Switch Condition Signal" error code 51 is, I have it.
now I have to learn how to test the TPS.
time to search!
07-21-2005, 04:35 PM
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so far "code 51" seems to be a generic toyota code meaning;
51-Switch Condition Signal
Diagnosis-AC switch ON,idle switch OFF during dignosis check.
Trouble area-AC switch circuit
-AC switch
-AC amplifire
-TPS circuit
-TPS
-ECU
I priced a new one its $150. hard to replace?
51-Switch Condition Signal
Diagnosis-AC switch ON,idle switch OFF during dignosis check.
Trouble area-AC switch circuit
-AC switch
-AC amplifire
-TPS circuit
-TPS
-ECU
I priced a new one its $150. hard to replace?
07-21-2005, 04:56 PM
#39
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Look here for more info That's just to extract teh trouble codes from the ECU. To check the timing, IAW the FSM, you set to 12 DBTDC, jumper B+ to Ig-, and it should drop to 5 DBTDC.
07-21-2005, 05:48 PM
#40
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I actually have a multimeter but i don't know how to really use it past testing batteries and house electrical outlets, but I found a thread here that pointed me to 4crawlers site with some really good instructions so I have to lean how to do that so I can test/adjust the TPS.
I'll need a feeler gauge too, time to go shopping again.
I cant even put a NEW one on unless I now how to adjust it once its on, right? :cry: I'll figure out how to test the old one before I go buy a new one...if nothing else but to just learn how to do it.
Thanks for the patience, give me time, I'll learn to swim.
I'll need a feeler gauge too, time to go shopping again.
I cant even put a NEW one on unless I now how to adjust it once its on, right? :cry: I'll figure out how to test the old one before I go buy a new one...if nothing else but to just learn how to do it.
Thanks for the patience, give me time, I'll learn to swim.
