ChristianJS

I'm new here. But I have joined because this forum seems to have the biggest knowledge base in the area I need.
I have searched both here and on the web in general and as I am a member of both IH8MUD, Expedition portal, Pirate and a few other places I have tried to find the relevant info in existing threads. but I'm not confident I got it right.

We (my girlfriend and I) are building an expedition vehicle based on the Volvo TGB1314.
To sum up shortly we are putting a Toyota Land Cruiser 1KZ-T engine with gearbox and transfer in it.

We have the 1KZ-T engine and a R150F gearbox. But because of the portal axles I am a bit worried about the gearing because of the overall 7.1:1 gearing through the diffs and portal hubs.
The above translates to 27,75km/h per 1000rpms so at 3000 rpm we will be doing 83,75km/h.

As far as I can understand from what have been written it would be a good idea to find a R452 Toyota Dyna gearbox and use the 5th gear sprockets (and only 5th gear!) with the standard 1-2-3-4 from the R150F thus getting a 30% overdrive in 5th instead of 17%.

Again, as far as I understand, it is irrelevant which housing you use. The reason I am asking is because the Volvo is a cab-forward vehicle. And even though I read somewhere that some do not like the R452 shifters they might be easier to work with in a cab-forward design even though I have made a cable operated shifter for the R150F:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2CG5bjwgWs&feature=channel_page[/youtube]

Lastly to get the gears spread as far as possible would the optimum package for us be a R452 housing with R151F (to get the lower 1st and 2nd) internals and cluster gears and the R452 5th?

Best Regards
Christian Juel Seldorf
Denmark

1stgen4gunner

Hello, christian, those be a lot of big words, most of us are just a bunch of humble hillbillies , but I will give it a crack. Concerning the R150F, It is a very close geared tranny and although you do have definitively a cab forward vehicle, you should be fine, although the R452 gearbox is a good idea, I don't think it would be absolutely necessary. Even if you use 5th gear only which will help you on the road but not off road, the gear jump may also be too much from 4th to 5th so you would have to reach around maybe 5 grand before you shift into overdrive, since the 1KZ-T only has about 90HP stock it would not be advisable (even though it is very torquey for such a small diesel, top speeds are worse than that of the 20R 1st generation Toyota Hilux motors) The first and second gears out of the R151F Turbo Transmission are awesome for off road, and may help out that little diesel alot, this seems like a good idea, and something I might do if I was to ever go onto an "expedition".

This about all the help I can offer, I don't know much about volvo's but did a little research on them to try and help you out, personally I would have taken a 3rd gen landcruiser with the 4.5L gasser on an "expedition", it has a Center Locking Differential and is almost as reliable as the 1KZ-T, but thats probably just because I like everything to be Toyota

ChristianJS

Thanks a lot Dave

I can see how the R151F might be too low when combined with the portals.
The 1KZ-T actually has 125HP. And the intercooled version of the 1KZ-TE has 140.

I get the "all being a Toyo" I have the exact samme attitute towards my HJ60!

JD

Christian

If the Volvo is basically a 6 wheel truck that came up with a Google search then that is a big sucker and it looks heavy. I would have preferred a H150 Landcruiser gearbox for the extra strength.

However, the R series should be ok as long as you treat it right.

I think Dave missed the point of the portals as otherwise what he indicated made sense, but with the portals giving you a drive ratio of 7:1 then the R452 5th gear would make a lot of sense and it should be fine as you will still be restricted in overall speed and rpm's etc with the 7:1 ratio.

Similarly, I see little point in using the R151 gear internals as you shouldn't need the extra lower 1st gear given the portals, however obviously this will depend on what you have planned

If you intend to do some serious 4wd stuff then a real low 1st might be useful given the size of the Volvo as even in normal take off situations with the R150/151 you probably will use 2nd given the portals, so having a real low 1st as a backstop could be advantageous etc.

As you have indicated either of the complete internals can be swapped into either casing and by using the R452 overdrive gears on the R150 or R151 you will get a 30% overdrive. The R452 overdrive cannot be altered.

If you don't see a real need for an extra extra low 1st then I would use the R150 with the R452 overdrive

I assume the cabover scenario precludes you from using a normal stick shift even if given a dog leg bend. Your cable shift looks trick but as a backstop I would fabricate a suitable stickshift that you can take as a backup spare. You girlfriend could sit in the back and do the changes .

Alternatively, if you do get a R452 then check out it's complete shifter mechanism and lever etc as it is designed for a Toyota cab over . It's just not great for normal 4Runners or Hilux's but could be perfect for the Volvo.

Good luck and best wishes to you both for your trip.

JD

ChristianJS

Hi JD!
Thanks alot for your reply! It confirmed everything for me!
However I will go a bit more in to details below.

It is that one, however it is not as big as you might think. Right now it sits as a chassis with engine and all drivegear and the cab on.
Adding me (96kgs) and a half tank (40 liters of petrol) it weighs 2,180 kgs.
We plan on a 3.5 ton total weight.
This is what it look like now:



The relatively low weight paired with the 7:1 gearing in the axles means that gearbox and tranny aren't subjected to heavy loads in my opinion. The above just confirmes your next sentence:

Since the purpose is to make an expedition vehicle to tour the world (big words, I know...) And not a rock-crawler or something like that I will go with your recomendation! I have the R150F and will go hunting for a R452.

Jep! The shifter is behind the cab. This is the original Volvo gearbox in place:



Thanks!
But having my girlfriend sit in the back while I shout changing commands at her would very quick end like this:

Girlfriend says: Or I could drive and he could do the shifting!!!

... the keyboard got highjacked for a second. You see my point!

I haven't seen the shifter mechanism on the R452 eventhough I have scoured the web. The only good pic of one is from Marks but that has a changed shifter for the 4Runners and Hilux's. But I will look in to it when I find one!

Thanks again for the help and the good wishes! We hope to include Australia in our trip!

Best regards Mette and Christian

JD

Oops, didn't think Mette would be reading this

The only good pic of one is from Marks but that has a changed shifter for the 4Runners and Hilux's. But I will look in to it when I find one!

Yep, the Marks pic is a modifcation to allow the lever to be positioned straight above the gearbox and inside the cab of a 4Runner/Hilux etc so it's also not really relevant for your Volvo.

I also haven't taken the time to actually look at the rest of the lever setup in a Dyna truck but the R452 actual lever mechanism on the side of the box should also mate up to a system to allow gearchanges in a cabover as that's what it is designed for.

It's therefore possible if you find a complete R452 Dyna truck the whole gear selection setup might resolve this for you.

http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car.../dyna%20truck/

Cheers
JD

ChristianJS

Well, she's as much part of the project as me! When we moved in together we had 3 air compressors between us, 2 of them where hers!

I've found a pic from a scrapyard here showing a dyna gearbox (bad img. quality though):

The shifter seems cable operated, Perfect for us!!!
Do you have any idea which years and with which engines Dynas used this box?

aviator

Welcome to the family Christian and Mette... Wow! that looks like a major build and is, I think one of the most ambitious builds by a member so far. Where in the world are you based? Please keep us informed on the progress of this interesting project...

ChristianJS

Thanks alot! We're from Denmark in Scandinavia.

Mette found a gearbox in a scrap yard from a Dyna. but the model number is R451?!??!?

Has any of you heard about that model? I haven't been able to find any information on it on the web...?

JD

I did all this along time ago but I seem to recall it was around the 1987 early 90's models. However, the teeth count of the gears you need are 23:49 so even check the R451 if the guy will let your remove the rear case.

ChristianJS

Thanks and ok. He won't. And i can't blame him... It wasn't dirt-cheap so we'll just keep looking for a R452

aviator

Denmark eh? cool... I thin k we have another member from denmark here... I know we have a member from the netherlands... from right near my family's home town actually... where abouts in Den.? I was there about 12 yrs ago saw Kobenhaven... was there for the Summer Solstice festival in Nuhaven dist., did Tivoli and a few other things, then went to Bilund for Legoland [what else lol]... loved it great people, food, country...
on the R451 can't you get any info from the Toyota dealers?

ChristianJS

Hi all

Sorry for the late reply, I hadn't seen your post Aviator. Thanks for the kind words! We like our little country!

Well I might as well post a little update.
Cash has been a bit low so not much progress...
We're still looking for the R452 gearbox. The problem is that the scrap yards take the gearboxes out and then the only way to identify the gearbox is calling Toyota and ask them to check the VIN-number.
I did that with two and the first result was "its a R45#" (yes, the date CD-rom stated that!) and the second inquiry gave the perfect answer "it's either a R451, R452 or R453"
Not much help there!

Well I almost went and bought a R452, but luckily someone updated a German homepage and I found the gearing of the R451:

Getriebeart Vollsynchronisiertes Schaltgetriebe (R451)
Anzahl der Gänge 5
1. Gang 4,313
2. Gang 2,330
3. Gang 1,436
4. Gang 1,000
5. Gang 0,838

Does it look familiar?

I've made a small comparison chart:




R150F
1995-05
3.830
2.062
1.436
1.000
0.838
4.220
Chain
23-spline
Top Shift
R151F
1986-87
4.313
2.330
1.436
1.000
0.838
4.843
Gear
23-spline
Forward Shift
R452
5.146
2.780
1.509
1.000
0.838
5-035
R451
4.313
2.330
1.436
1.000
0.838


So the search goes on...

Next issue!

We want to get the most out of the engine without compromizing durability. so we have a few plans for it (btw it's a 1KZ-T)

New elbow on the turbo. Gasser turbo litt. states that the first 50cm's of the downpipe must have the same volume as the engine. Wether or not this applies to diesel I do not know, but getting rid of the exhaust gasses must be good. According to my calc. the diameter of the downpipe should be 88mm. the elbow is 42mm at best!

3" exhaust. From what I've read this mod really helps the 1KZ-T

Intercooler, but of course! But what size? I have scourered the web to find some rule of thumb but to no avail... I know that it is possible to calculate, but I do not have the skills nor the patience... So if any of you happen to know, please doo tell!!!

We plan on relocating the oil filter to the frame. This will make servising much easuier in a cab-forward vehicle.

None of the above mod's should increase temp which from my research is the 1KZ-T's most vicious enemy eating heads like a female praying mantice on crack!

But if some of you have other ideas or input please let us know!

meus gramen est magis viridis

aviator

Well with heat being the issue you can probably switch to a more efficient radiator design... perhaps with an electric fan... that might help... you don't want to overcool the engine either that won't help the fuel economy...

ChristianJS

We are doing that as it is.

About overcooling, youre right, but thermostat should look after that. Or else we'll have to screen soe of the radiator like they do in polar regions etc...

do you have any input on intercooler size and what size plumbing to use?

aviator

Not really I have'nt researched intercoolers that much...

ChristianJS

Ahh.. ok.

ChristianJS

Hey JD, this one might be for you. I got a lead on a Dyna gearbox, but I'm not sure wether its the right one, Its dirt-cheap, less than 100$, but the guy who has it does'nt know where it's from other than it sat behind a 2LT and he thought it was from the late 80's

He sent me some pics though:





As far as I can see the house is aluminium, and the R452 is cast steel right?

JD

Yep all the R452's I have seen have cast casings and I was only looking at one last Saturday

Maybe ask him if he will remove the rear section and count the OD gear teeth as you never know.

JD

ChristianJS

I thought so... I'm almost considering having one shipped from Australia...