midiwall

Hey all;

I installed a SplitSecond ESC1 tonight and have a couple of questions.

Precursor:

• It is wired into a switched power source
• I only have the FRONT O2 sensor wired in, not the rear
• The vacuum/boost feed is hooked up and is valid
• I am using the GREY/GREY-BLACK wire set
• Red to positive, Black to frame ground

I have the following issues:

• With the engine running in vacuum (e.g, idle or otherwise) the A/FR is showing a VERY constant 14.7:1. Is this a feature?
• The concept of "force open loop on boost" does not work. I can still get to open loop in the normal manner of smashing my right foot to WOT.

Any ideas?

zman2day

I have one too....I could never get that thing to work right either. Its still sitting on my firewall DISCONNECTED. I have called SS and they swear that its a problem with my truck and NOT thier product.


GOOD LUCK!

Similiar symptoms, although at WOT my AFM does read rich for 30sec or so then slowly starts to drop until it is completely lean! (With my foot still on the floor!)

My setup: 10psi pulley, Stock MAF, SuperAFC, 305cc Supra injectors, 190lph Walbro pump(which I put on to hope to fix, didn't work), TRD headers, and Gen2 TRD S/C.

midiwall

argh... NOT what I wanted to hear.

Okay, I'm off to post this on Custom Taco and see if I can get Gadget's attention...


Thanks Zman

midiwall

fwiw, the CT thread got some response...

http://www.customtacos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70145

mt_goat

How are things working out Mark?

midiwall

The right hand isn't talking to the left.

As you saw, Gadget asked that I send it back to Brian ASAP and it can be "bench tested". I pulled it out of the truck and it's packed ready to go. I got an email from Brian last night asking if he could call today and talk me through things 'cause the box could be broken. weeeee.

It's going back on Monday with a request to test it. If it's "working" then refund my money as the product is worthless, or if it's "not" then send up one that is.

I'm this ][ close to calling the product a fraud based on now having heard from 5 people that have the same symptoms.

mt_goat

I bet the bench test wouldn't be too hard with a DMM and a vac/boost pump. I'd like to know how to test mine before I get the dash put back in place. Gadget tests all the stuff he sells on his own trucks first so I wouldn't suspect any fraud with a URD product. Probably the SS factory has a QC issue.

midiwall

Agreed - I could do it here, but Gadget asked for it back. Considering how the (lack of) conversation was going on CT, I wasn't going to argue with him.


If it's broken, that's fine. If it's "working to spec" then I don't directly blame URD, but given that they're pretty into SplitSecond, and a LOT of people confuse URD's role as a reseller, then I think that someone needs to redefine what this box does. Maybe it _is_ meant to constantly fake the ECU into thinking everything's at 14.7:1. If so, then say that and sell the box as a "run open loop 100% of the time!" hack. Of course, that breeds an issue of spending $200 for nothing more than a signal generator.

I'd buy into a SplitSecond QC issue if the folks I've heard from all bought theirs in the same timeframe. As it stands now, there's at least a 12 month spread.

mt_goat

It sounds like your unit was stuck in the boost mode to me.

midiwall

Yeup. I hope it's "broke", then I'm only out $25 in shipping.

But what about everyone else?

mt_goat

Didn't that one guy say his 2nd unit worked good?

mt_goat

What happened Mark? Got an update?

midiwall

Funny you should ask... I just wrote Brian.

Brian dropped it off at Split Second for testing on 8.24. I haven't heard anything since.

mt_goat

Oh ok, let us know, thanks.

mt_goat

I guess it's a good thing you weren't in a rush for that huh lol?

midiwall

Yeah... too bad I paid for express shipping when I ordered it.


I heard from Brian on 9/5... he said (oh golly, I almost wrote "claims" there) that Mark from SplitSecond was going to test it on 9/6.

Hmmm, lemme check that calendar...$208. tick-tock.

mastacox

Hmmm, so I never really paid attention to this thread before, but now I'm curious being that I have one of these installed.

I haven't even tried messing with the "early open loop" functionality, just the fuel and timing maps which are pretty straight forward. I was under the impression that you basically chose when the ESC would begin faking the O2 sensor's signal and push you into open loop early, either by setting a critical MAP value or something like that. Am I correct? I think I might like to try and move the "open loop trigger" down to about 60% throttle (rather than 80% where it is stock) and then set up my fuel map so the AFR varies semi-linearly from 14.7 to 12:1, and then stay at 12:1 after 80% throttle...

Also, quick question for Mark- how fast is the refresh rate on your LM-1 (Wideband O2)? The reason I ask is that you say your AFR stays at 14.7:1 pretty much the whole time, but mine will stay <around> 14.7:1, it varies as high as 15.1:1 and as low as perhaps 14.4:1. This variance is very fast, however, it will go from the minimum value to the max value in perhaps half a second, and then back again, always hanging out around 14.7:1. I'm guessing I need to program my display for a slower refresh rate, the manual said the controller is capable of going fast enough to capture exhaust pockets from individual cylinders

Also: I was getting to thinking, the NB sensor the engine uses is relatively weak at detecting the AFR in the engine, and my WB set up actually allows me to simulate a NB sensor's output from the WB sensor's readings (which should be faster and more accurate). Do you think my engine would run better if I used the simulated output (which would be much more accurate) from the WB controller? I might try it out anyway just to try...

midiwall

ahhh, the fun of it all!

Ummm, not with the ESC1. The ESC1 is looking at boost and is _not_ programmable. Basically it says "if you're pushing 1psi or more of boost, then I'm gonna fake out the ECU in some way that will let you use a fuel controller to add/subtract fuel as you wish".


Very fast, but I wasn't using it when I made the comment above.

My comment about the "stuck at 14.7:1" is based on me watching my normal AF/R meter which was hooked in _after_ the ESC1, so it's looking at the output of the box, NOT the output of the O2 sensor.

I _THINK_ this is a feature in that this is how the ESC1 is faking out the ECU - I'll explain that below.


Nope, this was dead square not moving a bit.


I've thought down those lines as well, but I've stayed away from doing it 'cause the cost of my NB O2 sensor is about 1/2 that of replacing a WB. Bottom line, we all know that O2 sensors will wear out, so if we're "lucky" enough to have an ECU that wants to see a NB up front, then why "waste" a WB in the front hole?

A side note... I have two bungs in front of the cat. I don't have the WB in all the time and I keep its hole plugged when I'm not running it.



Okay... now my theory on how the ESC1 works.

In the SMT thread, Johnny (Weasy2k) and I postulate back and forth about how the fakers work to get an ECU into open loop. When I first saw the output of the ESC1, I smacked myself on the forehead and went "DOH!".

I no longer think that these faker boxes push the ECU into open loop, what I think it's doing is simply generating a voltage that gets the ECU to thinking that the A/FR is exactly 14.7:1. When the ECU sees that, it won't try to adjust the A/FR at _all_, since it's already perfect.

Now, by using a piggyback (FTC, SMT, etc) you can sneak in on the ECU by way of the normal map adjustment and do whatever you want in the map. Again, the ECU won't fight it since it thinks that the A/FR is perfect. I'm fairly sure this is what was broken in my ESC1 - it's basically stuck "ACTIVE" no matter if there's boost or not at the MAP sensor.

Cool huh? Cute hack and VERY simple.


The bummer here is that basically the ESC1 is just a voltage source that's triggered by a MAP sensor. It'd probably cost about $30 to build, with most of that being the cost of the MAP sensor. A nice little profit for SS.

Live & learn.

mastacox

I see... the FTC1-E has a programmable trigger. I have it at a value of 4 psi based on the U-Tune guide for now, I might try messing with it more later. It's a very slick way to get around the open-loop functionality of the ECU by the way!

So when you have the LM-1 on and the ESC is not messing around with the sensor's signal, does your AFR jump around kind of like the way I was describing?

midiwall

Yeup... as does the SMT-7 which I've thought a lot about moving to.


Personally I like the concept of "hey you're in boost, I'm gonna mess with the ECU" concept. i.e., having control at 1psi, but it'll me more work to tune.


In closed loop? Oh most definitely. That's the nature of the beast in terms of how the ECU works.