BT17R

This past weekend I ran with a TLCA group at Cruisin' The Woods with my stock FJC except for OEM sized Nitto Terra Grapplers.

To my great surprise, I was able to get through a couple obstacles the lifted/overtired rigs couldn't due to their excessive height and width with aftermarket sliders. My factory sliders and tires got me through tight spots modded FJC's had to drive around.

Traction wasn't a problem for anyone in the dry conditions and might not have been in the mud. I'll find out next month on another run there.

I learned from this run that bigger isn't necessarily better in mild to moderate conditions. In fact, I won't be ordering the factory rack on my inbound TRD SE to reduce the chance of snagging low hanging tree limbs. I think the A-TRAC + RR Locker engaged running change with the Goodrich A/T KO's will more than compensate for bigger tires. We'll see.

Just venting, with my very limited experience I could be wrong, but I'm putting resources into an off-road training course with Bill Baird instead of mods that will compromise on-road performance where I drive 90% of the time.

Opinions?

Bob_98SR5

bob,

i would say it depends on what type of off roading you do, but philosophically speaking, i am in line w/ your thinking. id say build enough for your needs

bob

Good Times

I think this is a good example of driver skills. I'm not saying the drivers you were with are inexperienced but rather naive in their decisions on the trail. I've always been a firm believer of 90% driver skills and 10% vehicle specification.
Having a built vehicle is one thing but not knowing how to utilize 100% of the limitations of the vehicle is whole different story.

I'm always surprised at how many people think that they really need all of the "mods" before they can actually go out on the trails. If you're new to offroading, I think you should take full advantage of the stock configuration to learn the limitations of your vehicle so when you do begin upgrading/modding, you will be better knowledgeable about what you can do and what you can't do.

As for you Bob, I think you're just one of the few that are at the top of their games

d0ubledown

yep..what lance said. any toyota is excellent in mild to moderate conditions...locker/atrac or not. its all in driver skill. i wheel with alot of built SA toys..and go where they do. that is..until my 285's prove to not have enough clearance. most of the time...bigger tires will dictate what you can and cant clear. the sliders will ensure you dont kill your rockers

and regardless of what kinda terrain you ride...sliders & decent tires should be the basis of any off roader. start there..and if/when you start breaking things..then you know you need more mods. excellent pics btw..looks like a fun run

BT17R

Outstanding thoughts, thanks. Another side-effect I noticed was the big tire guys had to ride the brakes down the steepest parts (my inclinometer was pegged at times) which caused sidestepping at the worst moments. I was able to crawl down the same lines in 4Lo, 1st gear with minimal drama. I think it was due to their reduced crawl ratio and resulting loss of engine braking.

Checking with the tirerack.com site, I see that the 285 crowd lose 6% of their final drive. The M/T's effectively went from 3.91 to 3.67. I know tire type is a factor, but Nittos were prevalent on that run. I seemed to have better downhill control than others with bigger tires.

Yeah, I bashed the sliders pretty good, they saved the day more than once, but it was going through a rock garden bordered by old-growth fir trees and a tunnel. The only other FJC to attempt it suffered a smashed quarter panel due to limited lateral clearance, a direct result of his lift.

rngrchad

See my quote, which is also Tc's quote

ecchamberlin

I agree that limited mod's are needed to go enjoy wheeling. IMHO though
285's are not big tires at all.

No doubt at all that the new FJ comes ready to wheel. Not even debatable. But small mods will increase what it can handle and how easily it can handle them.

Case in point. I have no locker. Just the factory ATRAC system. I have never been strapped or winched and have followed the socal group everywhere they have gone never taking a bypass. It can be done but... I could do the same trails easier and with less abuse on my equipment if I added a rear locker.

FJ has both of these so not a problem there but the same point could be made for stepping up to a slightly larger and more aggresive tire.

Good discussion going here as usual!

Tacoclimber

Having wheeled four different Toyota trucks, all differently equipped, I am prone to agree with Eric. I think that minor mods do make a bit of a difference on the majority of easy to moderate trails. Once you get to the higher class stuff, now stock or close to stock just won't cut it. I have no problem admitting that my truck probably wouldn't win any rock crawling comps. (At least going uphill). But as I have taken a stock truck and slowly modded it, I have found that my fun has increased, as well as my capability, because I have learned not only to trust my truck, but also where it can be improved. That said, I know that my Tacoma is capable of much more than I have put it through, mainly because it's my DD and it's going to be for a while. I think the bottom line is that with really only minor mods, our trucks can be expected to handle more than we might realize. Just my 2c.

fireteacher

but its when you smash up your rockers when you wish you had at least the heavy duty sliders!
i have trashed mine going over rocks and used them countless times to help making tight turns (putting the sliders on a tree, putting it back in 2wd and sliding the rear around)
if i had not had sliders, i would have UGLY rockers right now.

unfortnutaley i have yet to wheel with a new FJ but i bet they go about the same as a 3rd gen, stock/locked.

tc

Sliders, bumpers, and skids are critical, they should be priority. I am MUCH more willing to try stuff knowing the truck is reasonably protected than before, and that allows me to learn more about 'wheeling.

IMHO, run the tallest tire you can fit stock, armor it up, and get some time behind the wheel. Then lockers will take you almost anywhere you want to take a full-bodied rig, and after wheeling that way for a while, you'll know exactly what you need for the kind of 'wheeling you do - whether it's longtravel IFS or SAS or whatever, and you're not throwing away money you spent on a lift... :2cents: