wheelerz

can you plug a 97 harness into a 96 ECU???

node

Be cairfull. I know for a fact toyota moved some wires around within the ECU between 96 and 98. I had to re-wire the darn thing after it wouldent run because I was running a 98 ECU with a 96 harness.

Jim

wheelerz

They onnly accept people from US... any other good place ?

Strider7

This is a question I posted on similar board, so if you saw it over there too, sorry ... I am just hoping to broaden my informational base by posting it over here too. Hopefully some of you chaps will have an answer for me.

Hello all ... new member here, enjoying your digs ... anyway on to the question.

After having searched and read over the archives here and on similar sites, I am still unsure about one thing regarding the swap.

Here's my situation - I have a '93 P/U w/ 5speed and 4x4 of course. I have located a '99 4Runner with the motor package that I need, however it has an automatic tranny. Will I be able to use the ECU from the '99 in my truck, or will I have problems with it? Will the computer be looking for the auto tranny, not find it, and have a fit? And, what about the tach, I am unsure about how that receives its signal as well.

Below is a quote that I pulled from an archived post ...

"Toyota changed the 3.4 setup somewhat in the 99 model year. They ran larger injectors and ditched the cumbersome MAF used previously along with the EGR system. The 96 4Runner was capable of supporting the supercharger, but in order to take advantage of all the cool upgrades they made, you would ideally find a 2000 - 2001 Tacoma or 1999 to 2000 4Runner. To my knowledge, these are the ones that ran the larger injectors, no EGR and no drive by wire throttle system. I would avoid the drive by wire system as it would represent an additional pain in the as$ to wire."

So it would seem from that bit of info that it would be possible to use an ECU from a standard tranny vehicle if I had too. I would prefer to use the ECU that came from the 4Runner that the motor is coming from, but if it won't work, it won't work.

The ECU is included in the package deal that I am getting, and introducing a part (ECU) from a different vehicle and possibly a different year model could increase the difficulty of the swap by adding variables. I would like to limit the chances of pesky problems caused by mismatched parts and minor differences between models as much as possible, hence my desire to use the ECU and motor from the same donor if at all possible.

So, will an ECU and motor from a '99 4Runner(3.4L) w/ auto tranny work in a '93 P/U w/ 5 speed tranny and 4x4?

TIA for all info and replies.

Willcipher

Hello,

I believe I made that post. you're going to have a few issues with using an automatic ECU and a manual tranny. First and foremost, the ECU is designed to communicate with the transmission- it takes inputs from the transmission and adjusts the ignition timing, and idle speed based on automatic specific inputs. It also controls the torque converter lockup, overdrive engagement, shift points, etc.. by analyzing throttle angle, speed sensor, and relative comparisons to an ASIC derived learning pattern. If you were to simply bolt in the motor and not attach an automatic transmission, you would end up with a CEL right off the bat, followed by strange idle conditions, and inherently poor overall performance. Your best bet would be to find a manual transmission ECU and engine wiring harness from the same year as your engine and get the sensors (MAF, A/F ratio, etc..) along with it. If this isn't possible, you need to find an ECU of a similar generation- meaning, if your injectors are the 99-02 style, get an ecu from that generation. If you're talking 95.5 to 98, get the electronics and sensors from that generation. There are different part numbers on the MAF and O2 / A/F sensors for almost every year but they will work within the same generation. 95.5 to 98 being one and 99-02 being the other. Another note, the engine harness from an auto can be used but the ECU connectors will be different between auto and manual. You will need to change some of the the plugs and the pinouts on some of the plugs, resulting in a large pain it the ass factor.

Willcipher

Regarding the Tach question, you will need to modify your tach to accept the later model tach signal. There is a link somewhere to the procedure; it involves changing the impedance of your existing Tach.. I built a tach interface on mine because nobody had figured out a way to get the tach to work. Do a search on the tach mod for more details..

Strider7

Willcipher, you Sir are a gentleman and a scholar. That is exactly the type of info I was looking for.

Unfortunatley, I kinda figured that my search for donor parts was far from over, I just wanted some confirmation. D@mned integrated computers! (he,he,he)

Yes, the package that I located was from a '99 Runner, so we're talking about the more recent generation. I am not planning on adding the TRD S/C package, but having the upgraded electronics just in case would be nice.

This blows bigs chunks because I was offered a good deal on the package, $1500 for the package complete (including all accessories from a wrecked, but still intact Runner) pending exchange of my old 3.slo and corresponding parts. Not a bad deal if you ask me. Now it would appear that I will have to hit the pavement again, looking for components from a manual tranny vehicle. I will no doubt spend more money pulling the parts from multiple sources.

Switching gears slightly ... this '99 that I mentioned has an LCD odometer, hence I don't know the exact mileage on the Runner. The best guess of the yard owner was a range of 50-70,000 miles. I would like to know for sure before I drop the cash on it. I have no experience with LCD odometers. Would connecting a battery to the truck get that LCD working (along with the key of course)? I am not dead set on this particular donor, but it is mostly intact and a relatively recent wreck - I am not so sure about using a motor that's been sitting in his warehouse for years (not to mention the fact that those are bare naked engines).

Thanks again ... and your sig mentions a "7th injector" - is your Runner Blown and Juiced???

Paul

Strider7

Oh, and I forgot about that bit on the tach. Yes, I know that the tach can be modded to work, see quote below from a post on Pirate4x4 (for the benefit of other would be swappers) ...

"Tach Solution:
Solder 10K-OHM resistor between two contacts on back of*the stock 3.0L tach. The links below are pics of the tach mod for both 2nd(84-88) and 3rd(89-95) gen trucks."

My mention of the tach was in reference to not understanding how it was integrated with the ECU and auto tranny, an issue which you addressed in your first reply.

Willcipher

Paul,
Regarding the LCD odometer, you should be able to drop a battery in the vehicle, turn the key, and get the reading. What I find surprising here is that the yard didn't make a note of this information when they first received the truck. Any good yard will document the mileage, start the engine, check for unusual noises and or smoke, and finally, pickle the engine with a marine fogger or plain old motor oil before long term storage.

Regarding the tach, the signal is completely independent of the ECU; the actual output is taken from the ignitor module/coil pack controller.

Regarding my truck, it's got many go fast goodies and runs quite well. It's still begging for a 50hp shot of nitrous. Common sense tells me this is bad idea but I don't always listen to common sense

Strider7

LMAO on that one ...


Ok, cool ... I will try to get that done if I wind up going with that particular truck (dropping in a battery for the mileage reading). I found it a bit wierd too, that he didn't know the specifics of that particular Runner. He had an extensive logbook of info that he used when telling me about a couple of other 5VZ-FE engines that he has had for some time. He could tell me their vehicle of origin, date of purchase, and their mileage. That he wouldn't have the same info on the other vehicle did set off my 'Spidey sense' just a little - it felt just a bit like he was either hiding something or trying to steer me away from that particular vehicle. Or maybe I just read the situation wrong. In any case I will get the facts before I drop the cash.

And as regards my own common sense, lol ... It may not be the best of ideas that I am attempting to do this swap on my own, in my garage, and while taking a 3 week 'Winter Mini' college math course, as a returning student (that reads old guy) no doubt. Ha,ha and they said I wasn't ballsy.

On a serious note though, I really do have to get this thing done, the truck has just been sitting too long (about 2 years now), and I want it up and running for my daily driver. Once it's running, the Integra goes to full time fun car only, and I get the cool 4x4 I always wanted as a kid .

EDIT: Oh and thank again for taking the time to reply to my posts, it might not seem like a big deal to you, but it is helping immensely with my project ... thanks !!!

Willcipher

Paul,

Glad to be able to help. I don't post that often but I watch the board every couple of weeks or so. Initially, I had to get my swap done to come up with a reliable daily driver. Either that or get rid of my junk all together I came across the 88 for a couple hundred bucks- rust free from Texas with a blown 3.0 motor. I picked it up and immediately tore it apart. I already had the 3.4; it was going to go in my 85 4Runner but I backed out due to the massive amount of work involved in converting a 4cyl to 6 cyl. (welding motormounts, moving crossmember, changing driveshafts, etc) So I had a $1200 motor sitting on a stand that I was contemplating putting back on Ebay until the 88 appeared out of the blue. The basic get er' done part of the install is too simple- unbolt the old motor and bolt in the new one. Use your existing oil pan, pickup tube and motor mounts, use the 3.4 flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The fun part (relatively speaking) is building the wiring harness and fabbing up the exhaust. I took my time and didn't cut any corners except on the exhaust because that was the one thing I couldn't do myself.. I had a buddy help me and it was enough to get me going but it was not permanent by any means. It ended up being all welded together and impeding the removal of the transmission in the case of a clutch replacement. (it would've been better if we hadn't been partying really hard for an entire day when we welded it up) A word of advice for anyone that takes this on- be sure to build the exhaust system where it can be removed without cutting it apart. Use bolt together flanges on the crossover or you'll be cursing it later on..

As far as the wiring goes, get the EWD's from Toyota for your vehicle and the donor motor ECU/engine wiring (this is a must). Map out and verify all the connections prior to soldering. Take your time, *stagger, solder and shrink wrap every connection whenever possible, label everything pertinent for diagnosis at a later time, etc.
*I'll define 'stagger': ---- are wires; === are splices (soldered and shrunk)
Do this-
---===-----------
-------===-------
-----------===---

Not this-
-------===-------
-------===-------
-------===-------

If you're not comfortable reading the Toyota EWD's and don't understand the basics of electronics (ie.. how to use a digital multimeter) then this can be an opportunity for you to either learn it on the fly or pay someone else to do it-

Manual transmissions-
Offroad Solutions (Mike Caskey) is one of the places that will do this. TeamShiftPoint
(William) has mentioned that he does this. Get in touch with one of these places for
details. I can do this as well, time permitting. Email me at willcipher@yahoo.com for more info.

Automatic transmissions-
I believe William from Team Shift Point has done one of these; correct me if I'm wrong, William! Do a search on auto transmission 3.4 swaps and find the thread... There is someone who did this. It's not for the meek...

Good luck on your project!

Will

Strider7

That sounds similar to how I came upon this truck ... It wound up being a gift from my uncle, after he got tired of trying to sell me a dead truck. Well, that and his neighbor said that she wanted it out of her yard (yeah for me!). So, lazy as he is on these types of things, he told me to just come and get it if I still wanted it. I was there in less than 30 minutes and towed it home with my T100.

As far as the exhaust goes, I think I am going to use the Downey headers, and have a shop fab up and weld the rest of it for me. I have no welder, and no training in that art even if I did have the equipment. And yes, I've read about the difficulties to be encountered with the exhaust system, and was planning on having the shop build it with flanges so as to be easily removeable in case of needed repairs. What do you think about using the exhaust components from the donor vehicle? The shop could use the cat, muffler, and the sections that house the two sensor bungs, and piece it all together with what pipe they need. I will have to check on that idea a bit more in-depth to see if it is really a workable and cost effective exhaust solution.

What?!?!? You mean I don't want one big cluster clump of wires? (I'm not getting smart with you just a touch of humor - sad that we have to spell out our intent on the internet - although the smilies are a great aid towards that end.)

YEAH ... I am REALLY looking forward to the wiring aspect of it. (And yes, you did detect a heavy dose of sarcasm there.) Mostly it's the tedium of the work that I am not gonna take a liking to. But hey, at least I don't have to get greasy doing the wiring ... and, it can be done inside a room that's much warmer than the garage. I agree, I will have to come up with some sort of permanent labeling system for future electrical troubleshooting.

That '90 4Runner of his (William from TSP) cousins looks very nice, I am going to try to do something like what they did on that truck with my hood. Locate a banged up OEM hood with scoop, cut it out and have it welded into my hood. But that is the least of my worries now, first to get her running. I am close enough to try and hook up with those fellas and get a look at the rigs in person ... humn, maybe ...

Well, I will post up again once I've made some real progress. As of yet, I have removed the radiator, fan, and shroud, and begun to disconnect everything neccessary to snatch out the motor. The motor mounts are loose, as is the tranny - I just have to deal with the a/c, fuel and p/s lines, and then I think I'm ready to pull it.

If you think of anything else, I'll have my eye on this thread ... and hopefully I will post up soon, REAL SOON, with a report of major progress.

Strider7

Ok, so the major progress so far is that the 3.sl0 is out and on a stand. And all I can say is wow, what a mess. No problem with the rods as far as I can tell by looking into the bottom after I dropped the oil pan. However, pulling a valve cover did reveal a heavy coat of rust on the cam lobes. I can only guess that the cylinder sleeves are oxidized just as heavily, which would explain why the engine is seized. I think that this motor was a victim of the notorious 3.0L headvalve gasket failure, and neglect on the part of my uncle, who let it sit up for two years before deciding to give it to me. Two years during which oil like chocolate milk sat in the motor - yuck.

So with all of that bad news inside that engine, the swap is definitely underway. There's no way I am going to attempt a rebuild on the 3.0L when I can swap in a late model 3.4L that is more fuel efficient and powerful.

I'll prolly reassemble the 3.0L tomorrow for use as a trade in on the 3.4L that'll be coming soon. Then I'll pull the oil pressure sending unit, and flywheel. I have already pulled the dipstick tube and motor mounts, as well as other parts that are needed for the swap.

Humn, maybe the yards will be open again on Monday ... I need to source some 3.4L parts.

All have a safe holiday ...

mt_goat

Mike @ ORS also makes conversion kits for the auto tranny. http://www.offroadsolutions.com/technicalarticles.htm

Strider7

I will actually be making my own harness. It will afford me the opportunity to become more intimately aquainted with the truck in general. That way if any problems arise, I should be able to track them down.

And ... if things suddenly catch a flame, I'll know who to blame (ha,ha,ha) ...

(You know, I am thinking that I have effectively 'Hijacked' this guys thread - granted given it's age, I don't think he really cares - perhaps I should start my own now.)

leebee

you might want to check out 4x4lamms posts regarding wiring and fires. he has a pretty good example of why you must do it correctly. he explains very clearly why it is so important to make sure each connection is perfect.

lee

Strider7

Well after a few weeks delay, I just wanted to post up something as to my progress so far ... I picked up a '99 3.4L today! I will be starting my own thread, so that folks can read all about what's going on with my project.

Thanks for all of your replies in this post, and to the original poster, thanks for letting me borrow your thread for a while.

mt_goat

The tach mod is at the top of page 4 here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...=173918&page=4

chancesR

Hello,

New to this site and would like to know if a 5vz-fe from a 01 4runner with auto tranny can be swap into a 94 pickup with a 3vze with auto tranny? Auto?!?! you think, well I'm not into 4bying but I I am into the extra power but the wife needs to be able to drive it to. Instruction would be great too. I read some post with mentioning of ORS. What is there website? Thanks ahead of time.

camo31_10.50

first off...holy hell this thread is old lmao

and second..i think it's perty nice that you're keeping it auto for the wife lol

and third..ORS doesn't make the harness anymore..i can't remember why..but they stopped producing it..so you're basically on your own...if ORS still produced the harness..i would have had my swap underway months ago..lmao