doody-dog

Does anyone have any Idea/Solutions?
Bought used 86 Dolphin, 22RE engine. Worked great but used LOTS oil. Had it rebuilt by private mechanic. (Was THIS my BIG MISTAKE? ) Think he was honest but not real Experienced. Now 170 prev. compression down to 130. Goes into overdrive auto. at 50 mph, but will not stay in Overdrive if I keep foot on Accelerator. Had it in to Reputable Mechanic + Trans Expert of Experience. All i keep hearing is, it doesn't have enough power !! Need some ideas before I have to purchase another REBUILD + $$$. Timing checked 1,000 times, seems to be SPOT-On, but everything tries to steer me to Timing OR move teeth on the Camshaft to correct timing, OR* !!Need a New Engine REBUILD ! Orig engine had 70,000 miles. Are we missing an idea/s, short of 2nd Engine Rebuild? I would Appreciate any ideas or Help . Without Overdrive capability (it shifts down to 3rd if I try to maintain 60 mph in Overdrive) But can roar that 3rd gear up to 75+, but result is Lousy 11 mpg. I'm not hauling anything and only 1 passenger. IDEAS, Please * . . . .

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

How many miles since rebuild??

Sounds like maybe the rings have not seated yet.

Low compression can be caused by rings not sealing or by worn valves.

Just what was done?? All to often rebuild gets used as any work done on a engine.

was the block bored to get the cylinders round again meaning new pistons and rings.

What kind of head work was done or was the head not touched.

What was the cause of the oil being used was it burning or was it leaking ??

BamaYota1

How long since rebuild, and why aren't you taking it back to the mechanic who built it?

doody-dog

Thanks BamaYota for your Question, "How long ago+Why don't you take it back?" Rebuild was done April, 2012. Used @ 800 miles since. Getting such lousy MPG(11) I keep taking it back to my Trusted Mechanic. Private referred guy did rebuild (communication probs., he mostly speaks Spanish) 1 man shop/I DID go back 3 + times, w/broken Trans. Cable, stretched in pull out?, and getting no Throttle. He cussed me out so bad, insists there is nothing wrong w/RV. Don't think he's done many Rebuilds (was referred to me) nor ever an RV. Tells me RV is too heavy to go +45mph !! Supposedly his work guarantd 12 months, but 1 man shop; his yelling scares me. (I'm 110 lb. woman, but I'm NOT stupid!) Drove Rural Mail Route 30+ yrs, had to provide own Vehicle...My mechanic has all but given up. Only option I Seem left with, is NEW REBUILD! 4/2012 paid $2,000; #2 Rebuild; +$3,500 !?!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

If you gave us a idea where you live help could be close at hand.


The thing is from what I read is you really have no real idea what was done.

Do you have any sort of invoice that is detailed at all.

It is a shame you are being scared by this person. I take it you have no friends that speak Spanish fluently .

I take it your trusted mechanic knows enough about Toyota Engines to jumper TE-1 to TE to check and adjust the timing .If the timing is off it will effect the shifting of the trans.

If your up north running this winterblend gas and lugging the extra weight of the camper let alone the added wind resistance . 11mpg is not all that bad.

BamaYota1

Ok. First and foremost, pull the codes for the truck. Even if the check engine light is not on, you can still have codes.

Next, you need to pull your o2 sensor and have a good look at it. If you were burning a great deal of oil before the rebuild, there is a very good chance it is completely clogged with soot. Also, look at your exhaust while the truck is running. Take a cloth or thicker paper towel and hold it over your tailpipe. If after a few seconds you can see black soot showing up on the rag, you have a lot of unburned fuel.
As you know, the O2 sensor is one if the most important sensors on your truck. It measures engine performance and keeps the air fuel mixture correct. If it gets clogged, the ecu cannot get an accurate reading, and it thinks the truck is running lean, so it attempts to add fuel to richen the mixture. But since it can't read, adding fuel doesn't change the false reading, and the cycle repeats.

Another problem with running extremely rich is you run the risk of washing your cylinders. The excess fuel can actually cause the new rings to not seat, which will cause excessive carbon on affected pistons, which will lead to oil consumption, to rebuild, etc.

I spent about the same amount of money as you on a rebuild less than a year ago. Like you, I was extremely disappointed with my fuel mileage and power. When I finally pulled my O2 sensor I was shocked at what I found. It was completely clogged. I swapped it out for a brand new Denso direct fit, and my truck ran like a cometely different truck. My power was increased, and my fuel mileage increased several miles per gallon.

So, start with a visual inspection of your o2 to check for clogs. If not clogged, you will need to test it to make sure it is functioning correctly. If you have not bought an automotive multimeter, you need to now. If it is not the o2, we will be checking lots of other electrical components to see what is and is not in spec.

Luckily, the 22re is a rather simple engine mechanically. If your mechanic was even half decent, he probably got the mechanical portion of the rebuild correct. Now we just need to focus on everything else needed to make the engine run correct.

doody-dog

Thanks so much, Montana & BamaYota- I was so heartened to hear from bot 'o you! I live in OREGON, Eugene to be exact. We don't have emission testing standards here, so the O2 sensor COULD maybe be part...? I've tried to put ONLY 'No Ethyl' gas in it, since the rebuild, and got +1 better mpg. Just really stuck on WHY that compression test is So LOW. 130! My mechanic is THE BEST in Eugene. He's wkd on it & refuz to give up for sev. months. Renowned Owner/Business here for 35 yrs. I'm afraid he might not even wanna look at these things you suggest, but I WILL take the info to him Mon Morn. Do either you know someone local to me? I DO so-ooo appreciate your ideas! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/horse.gif Thanks* ~doody-dog

BamaYota1

o2 in our truck has little to nothing to so with emissions.

I didn't understand from your first post that your compression was down to 130. Did you measure it? Was it taken with the throttle open?

doody-dog

Yep, 1st tuneup after i bought it, before the rebiuld-170 comp. then rebuild; then MULTIPLE problems! Broke tanny cable broken throttle emissions sensor, all repaired by my Trusted Mechanic. He's top-notch, known all over town. can't say 4 sure, but seems he's tested that timing & compression 18 different ways!
Someone said, "Maybe a tooth got moved on the Cam Chain?" Think maybe it needs a new Computer. My mech keeps wishing it had a Tach meter on it. That's about where he's ended. He has so-oo much business and so in-Demand, it's hard to get him to fit me in again, but I'd almost swear he did Comp test w/ throttle open if that's the correct way... ( Apologies- I'm a real slow typer; 1 finger!, + keep getting confused navig this Site; YotaTech.) Never done a blog before, but I'm feelin desperate, to think of selling & searching AGAIN n n n ...
Thanks !

BamaYota1

If your compression is down on a new rebuild, your mechanic needs to fix it, for free. Low compression means bad valve or ring problem. It is not a timing problem with low compression, nor a sensor issue.

You need to make him fix it, and not when he gets an opening. Maybe you should take a man with you, no offense.

doody-dog

'My Mechanic' of the last 6 months, since I got my engine rebuild, is HOT the jerk I was referred to who did the rebuild. My mechanic has been devoted to helping ne get things working again. The guy (SHOP) who referred me to this spanish 1 man shop, won't stand by me either. They work just across the drive from each other. Everyone (guys, mostly) who know of my dilemna just cringe and say, "Yeah, there are a lot of crooks out there, and looks like you found a good one." I tried taking him to small claims court. He appeared so meek and mild and piously Catholic, how he did the VERY BEST job, and is Hoest and hard working to raise his 5 children alone ! .... etc. The judge was a woman. She bought his story hook line & sinker. Case dismissed. Never saw a happier 'poverty stricken' timid & humble jerk as he danced his way outta there. I was DEVASTATED, in disbelief! My trusted, long term mechanic can do nothing to make it Right, w/ "my bad choice" Said Engine should never have been done, had the guy been honest in 1st place!! It was only using a lot of oil-butning it thru stuck rings. Do you, ANYBODY? know someone local to OREGON.?
Will Travel for Help. Afterall, i Do still have a camper to sleep in*

85toy4runner

sorry that happened to you doody-dog

doody-dog

Since it seems I'm gonna have replace my 22RE, (loss of power w/rebuild) anyone know if I could replace with a 6 cyl. ? Anyone know of a Toyota Rv in good shape, FOR SALE. Travel to purchase, not a problem.

Thanks all*

BamaYota1

There still may be hope for your old engine. You need to have a leak down test performed on the engine to determine why your compression is so low. If you can pinpoint where the compression is going, you can figure out what needs to be fixed. It could end up being valves way too tight or something simple. Before you decide to do something drastic, be sure you know what is wrong so you can make an informed decision of what you need to do.

doody-dog

Thanks Bama* How do I go about getting the 'LeakDown' Test? Who does that type of thing? Engine Rebuild Shop? Might be HOPE, Huh?

doody-dog

Hey Bama- I checked it out on Google. Seems that's a test BEST done, w/the engine pulled. Don't know if I want anyone but my Trusted 35 yr. Mechanic shop to do it--but he might tell me he's just too overbooked !! He really does work a tight, on-target shop of 4-5 guys, often 2-3 wk. wait. I will talk to him Mon. GREAT to have some hope* If not him, you/ANYONE got any contacts out here in po-dunk Oregon? The coach is otherwise very 'Sweet'; So-oo well cared for, clean and cozy inside. They took good care... It just prob SAT for a wjile after illness/? cut into their travel dreams. I bought it from thge 2nd party, but only 75,000 miles on a great 'used-to-be' 22 RE . Thanks!! Any contact ideas, I'd be floating on a cloud. I've been working on this dream, over a year now, &
don't wanna throw in the towel! You guys are GREAT !!!*

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Lets start with some basic "dealling with mechanics" education, not that I think the Op did anything wrong persay ect. But just for everyones benefit.

A) Let the mechanic know up front you expect to see all part invoices, and the old parts when the job is done.
B) It is ok if they add a little to the parts cost, this covers things like sourcing, and inspecting new parts.
C) Your reciept should always contain an itemized list of what was done and the actual or estimated time.
D) Do not accept your car, eg sign for it and pay, untill all of the above are presented.

Now I fully understand it's no fun to have to translate someones broken english into proper english, and some accents are just really difficult for those of us brought up with "standard walt cronkite" accents everywhere.

That said guy is a douch for yelling at customers and they never should have let him off in court. The 130psi compression should have hung him out to dry no matter how pathetic he was, ~140 is the minimum acceptable. Your judge was also incompetent. My condolences.

Now to the issues at hand. You never said if you had an itemized list of what was done to your engine, do you have this some where? Even if it's half BS, it gives us something to work with.

For the price you paid it should basicly have brand new everything. Someone might correct me if I'm wrong but the time estimate is in the range of 8-16 hrs for a rebuild on these 22re motors. This includes removal, tear down, assembly and installation. @ 40$/hr thats less than 680 labor. Add a master rebuilt kit with new valves ect excluding new cam and crank, under 700$. There are some machinist fees I'm ignoring, but they are signifigently less than both of the others.

Your 3.5k quote should include high performance parts and lots of them, aswell as a new block and head.

Now of course the Dolphin is a whale and you can't expect to get the 20-25+ mpg the mini trucks get. However 11 is really bad, the toyota box trucks(U-haul) is the same truck(1ton) and also has a less than optimal shape and they get atleast 16mpg loaded.

Any machine shop that does engine work can test the head for valve leaks. What they do is bolt it down to a precision piece of steel and pump air into the sparkplug holes. This is not ideal for your situation. Why? Because your motor is essentialy brand new, 800miles is barely above a 500 mile break in and only 80% of a 1k one. And I'm giving the builder some benefit of doubt that it's just not seated/broke in yet.

Now of course I assume you have a basic tool kit. eg screw drivers, socket and box wrench sets. If you don't have these pick up a cheap set from Harborfreight, they have an excellent return policy and unbeatable prices. Thier tools are mostly made in india and with that comes some times bad quality control, but again excellent return policy. You should have these tools in your RV at all times. You might not feel comfortable doing all your repairs, and that is fine. But they will pay for themselves the first time you're sitting on the side of the road or RV park. Eventually someone will wander by that could get you going again if only they had a wrench, and of course some duct tape. never leave home with out THAT!

What you want to do is go to the local autoparts franchise that has a loaner tool program. Ask them for the compression test kit loan-a-tool for a toyota 22re 4 cylinder. This will cost you a deposit that is fully refundable unless you break thier stuff. Which is pretty hard todo just don't drop kick it or smack it with a hammer ect.

Now I'm gonna try and quote the manual from memory so anybody jump in if I skip anything. and I'll try to do it with all the infomation a novice needs. Again chime in please with precise addendums for newbies.

1) Disconnect sparkplug wires from spark plugs by pulling off the boots, right near the motor where you can feel the top of the plug, if it doesn't feel like metal keep poking around untill you find it. (Four thick wires, on the drivers side of the motor)
2) Disconnect the clip from the wire coming off the side of the distributor, by ifting up on the little lock tab. This plug may or maynot be in a holder on the side of the distributor it's ok to remove it from that clamp.
3) Remove each spark plug one by one placing it out of the way in a safe location, and keep track of which one was in which hole. eg poke holes in a soda box and number them 1 thru 4, place the plugs engine side up. And send us a photo (We love photos!). Take care not to drop them or otherwise bend the "hooks".

4) attach the borrowed guage to each of the spark plug holes one at a time, and place it on top of the engine(valve cover). If you can place it so you can see it thru the windshield peeking under the hood is best.
5) Inspect the engine bay making sure none of the things you disconnected are hanging near the belts or fan.
6) Proceed to the drivers seat. You will now crank the engine for about 3 seconds, Listen for roughly six loud "chuffing" noises, or watch the compression guage for 6 or so pulses.
7) When you are done cranking. Start a stop watch or note the complete time (eg seconds and minute), and the pressure reading on the guage.
8) Record the guage reading again at 10s, 30s, 1m and 2m. If you loose more than 50% of the original reading go ahead and stop the timer and note the time.

9) Release the left over pressure in the hose by pressing the little valve and repeat steps four thru eight for each cylinder.

10) Replace each spark plug in it's original hole by hand, taking care that they are straight and not "cross threaded". Tighten these with a socket wrench to roughly 14lbs(similar to lifting a gallon of milk, or 12pack of soda pop).
11) replace each plug wire firmly seating it to the plug, generally they only fit one way but just in case, the upper right one goes to the first the upper left one goes to the third, the lower left one goes to the fourth, and the lower right to the second.
12) Reconnect the plug on/off the side of the distributor, and place it back in it's holder.

13) Wash up and have a nice cool drink! You've just earned your first automotive merit badge!

14) Come back and post any photos and results of the timed readings.

Now of course these loan-a-tools aren't always very precise in thier calibration, they're not high quality and not usually treated as well as they should be. So your readings may be a little "strange", but as long as the hoses are well seated and not leaking they will give a good indication of what is going on.

Also keep these notes for your mechanic, he may of already done them but it outta make him smile atleast. You can bet safely he doesn't get a lot of help from his clients.

Now a few more questions.

These 800 miles are mostly interstate/highway travel?
Over what kinds of terrain, eg hilly or flat?
Do you check the fluids often?
Has the oil level appeared at any time to be more than the last time you checked and added to the system?
Tires inflated at or near thier maximum rating? (use the rating on the tires not the door placard, tires have vastly improved over time and have a much higher rating now)
What transmission do you have? (Listed on the drivers door placard as "A/TM some/codes")
What size tires? (Take from the tire markings not the door placard, just to be sure.)

And some comments.

regarding the 3rd to OD shifting.

Your throttle usage/position has a substancial effect on when the shifts occur.

At 50% throttle you will shift from 1-2 around 17-20mph, 2-3 at 40, and 3-OD at 50-52.

If you increase the throttle from 50% to 60% at 50mph it should drop back to 3. It will stay in 3 untill 62-65.

At 80-85% throttle it will stay in 3rd well above 75mph. also at 80-85% it will drop from OD to 3 at anyspeed below 60-62mph.

And a comment for all RV'ers!
My best suggestion for RV travel is to check the weather, invest in a hood mounted wind speed guage, and just stay put if the wind isn't pblowing the way you want to go untill dawn or dusk when it shifts or noon when it tends to calm down. I've done a bit of that and even when gas was cheeeap we went with the wind or stayed put!

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Went and checked, yep forgot a step of course..

2b) Dissconnect the cold start injector wires. That is the gadget in the middle of the intake plenum(big aluminium pipe), it has a wire plug and a aluminium fuel line, dis connect only the wiring.

Someone post if that is a push the tab or pull the tab type please.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

On your O2 Sensor question, it has probably been awhile since it has been changed and wouldnt be surprised if it isnt the orginal O2 sensor. I get mine from www.sparkplugs.com and any exhaust shop can install it for you. Usually cost me about $25 to have it done.

I myself wont do a full on rebuild on these 22r motors. Between a rebuild kit, machine work and if it needs a new or alot of head work, you can get close $1000, once a motor rebuild starts exceeding $500 or so I look at just replacing the motor. I am currently having a motor shipped out from www.unitedengine.com and the motor is on sale this week under specials. The total cost is $1038 shipped to my local parts store, and I dont even have to send in a core. I have installed 2 other motors from them and both have been great motors and I couldnt be happier from my experience with them.

Hopefully your mechanic can get it straightened out for you. Dont give up as there seems to be a lot of Yotatechers in your area and one is bound to eventually find your thread and might could give it a look for you or get you to someone who knows your motor.

Edited...Corrected address.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

On your 6 cylinder swap from a 4 cylinder swap, the frame mounts and wiring harnesses are way different and would be a big job. If you were going to go that far you would want to do a 3.4 swap. For the cost of it, you would be better off just finding another RV.