3rnr

Hello 'Yota friends,

It's been a few years since I last bought an older Toyota, and I'm trying to find a reliable way to get an accurate appraisal/value on an older Toyota (KBB, Edmunds, NADA, etc. all differ so far apart from eachother I don't know what to believe!) Just seeking some input here!

Local dealer has a 1991 pickup in and they're asking $5,000. It has the 3.0L 3VZE and 5-speed transmission, it's a 4x4, extended cab, and has 215,000 miles. The report says it's accident-free and it appears to have been regularly serviced, including the timing belt 35k ago. The road salt has taken a little bit of a toll on it over the years, unfortunately. I have not driven it yet.

They claim that they put $1,100 into it when they got it as a trade-in (steering box, tie rods, tightened something on the suspension, just to name a few.) It's been on their lot for some time and I asked what they'd take and they said the lowest would be $4,000, however, the salesman hinted that they'd take less with a cash offer. If it passes my inspection and test drive, I'm thinking of offering $2,450 cash and hoping we can negotiate to $3,000 cash or less. Is that a reasonable figure for me to offer? I don't have a lot of experience with car salesmen, dealerships, or negotiating on vehicles.

Here's a few pictures:







Any advice or opinions? I'd sure appreciate it!

Thank you,
3rnr

Mr.Utah

It's probably worth 2,500. I would not even think of giving 4-5k. Old, lots of miles, and needs body work. my 2 cents.

3rnr

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it! I've seen much nicer, rust-free older 4x4 Toyota's down in the southern states for the same price they're asking up here in the north where we salt our roads and highways. I'm probably stating the obvious here, but our prices on 4x4's tend to be higher up here because 4x4 capabilities are more of a necessity than a luxury. I'm not too worried about rust if it's something I can POR-15 or something, but the fenders are clearly eaten-out in some spots and would need more professional work than just a simple rust-treatment and paint job.

jbtvt

5 Gs for that??

Check CL or searchtempest for private sellers. Any 3.0 over 200k is more than likely to have a burnt exhaust valve given what a PITA they are to adjust. Not the end of the world, but still. I wouldn't even pay 2 for it with rust like that, and if you search CL you'll find them for even less. Be patient.

fierohink

Plus looking at that scanning on the wheel well, I'd check the frame real well behind the fuel tank and near the spring hangers. Salt causes cancer on these things and a '91 may have missed out on the 15 year window for the frame recall.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

As you found out these trucks have a regional market.

It is supply and demand in snow country anything 4x4 is priced according .

$ 5000.00 is way to much the reason it still sits .

It all depends just how bad you think you need this .

I have way to many so I can`t really get in the mind set of needing something and being willing to pay way to much.

It does not hurt to make your offer you might get lucky and they go for it.

Then I have never bought a 4x4 that did not need another $1000.00 or more in parts. To catch up on neglected maintenance.

Any idea when the last timing belt was done??

3rnr

Thank you guys for the additional input!

Yeah, the timing belt was done 35k ago. And it appears to have had regular maintenance. The miles don't scare me too much, I've got a '95 4Runner with 240k on it and it's still going strong. The rust, however, does kind of scare me.

I'm still thinking of offering cash for it, but probably not very much. As you guys pointed out it's certainly worth nowhere near the asking price or probably even half that much. I don't see any reason to get hasty over something like that.

I'm not in dire need of a pickup, but I do a lot of outdoors stuff; including gold prospecting, and a pickup would be far more practical than an SUV, so that's why this one kind of caught my eye. It seems like where I live there isn't much of an old Toyota market, so finding an old one in "decent" shape for a reasonable price can be a chore sometimes.

fierohink

Another thing to remember is the prime of these vehicles is passing. Don't get me wrong, I loved my '94 pickup. But it was only 9 years old with 70k miles when I bought it. So she gave over 100k miles of fun and relatively worry free transport.

You're talking now about a 25 year old truck with 3x the miles. Sure these things can go for over 300k miles, but you're getting in at the end of that time. You are deep into the nickel and dime phase of going from 1 breakdown to the next. Not simply from bad or unknown maintenance, but components and technology getting old.

Cars come with 100k mile warranties now, in the '90s there was no such thing. You're at the point when injectors and sensors can die, fuel pumps quit, power steering pumps and boxes leak, ball joints, sagging t-bars and leafs, and don't forget the rust.

Unless you can steal that truck for $1500, I wouldn't do it. Heck if you're in the $4k market why not look at a later '90s Taco. Less miles, more options.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

wow, if they expect to get $5k for that, then my truck would sell for like $15k on their lot! at that price I'd seriously consider buying a plane ticket and buying in another state. $5k in CA will usually get you either a clean unmolested truck, or a semi-built rig with aftermarket goods. I would run, not walk away from that one. Good luck!

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

That is not worth 5k on a good day. Go shopping some more. A member here has a really good project truck availible for 10x less. Be ready to travel there are far better examples out there for that kind of money.

You are looking at 2 fenders, and a bed. Check out toyotafiberglass.com to see how fast the costs start adding up for that particular vehicle.

I would pass on it.

3rnr

Thanks again for the add'l comments and input!

I think I agree with the overall opinion you guys have offered here. Ideally I'd like to spend less than $3,000 on a 2nd or 3rd gen Toyota 4x4/5-speed pickup... preferably stock or close to stock, I'm not looking for a built-up rockcrawler or anything.

Other than the Yotatech Classifieds, are there any other good places to look around in addition to Craigslist and AutoTrader? There is a small chance I might lowball the dealer (if the undercarriage isn't as rusted as I'm guessing it probably is...), otherwise I think I'm going to follow your guys' overall advice and probably pass on this one.

I certainly wouldn't mind going on a road trip to buy something more reasonable than this one that I posted pictures of. I've got 6 weeks of vacation time to burn up at work and I haven't been on vacation for almost 4 years, so something out of state that isn't rusted out would definitely be a piece of cake to go get IF I can find the right truck for the right price!

voiddweller

Just my 2 cents.. I paid 2500 for my 95 4runner, which appeared to be in really good shape, then within 2 months this is the list of repairs i've done myself or had done at a shop. Most I did myself to save money except the head gasket which cost 1800.00 and didn't start happening until a month after I purchased the thing..

Cv joints (Popped during 4wd, replaced new)
Clutch kit (replaced original factory clutch 20 yrs old)
Idler arm (was loose steering)
Pitman arm (was loose steering)
Rear Window Switch (replaced connectors, poor soldering prev owner)
Spark plugs (because)
Spark plug wires (because)
Distributor cap & rotor (because)
Broken distributor bolts (discovered during replacement, tapped, replaced)
Parking Brake Cable (forward section to split, old broken behind handle in cab)
Starter (was clicking, salvage replacement from BM)
Starter positive wire connector (old wouldn’t come off during install, cut and replaced)
Head gaskets, kit (Head and all gaskets above, plenum, etc)
Knock sensor harness (old was bare wire)
Timing belt (worn, nicked and chipped in one spot)
Timing pulley (made noise, was slightly bent off-track)
Water pump (why not, during head gasket job)
Differential Pinion Seal (was leaking gear oil all over the underside of the truck)
Upper radiator hose (blew a leak)
Lower radiator hose (had the coolant drained during upper, why not)
Water bypass hose (sprung leak after head gasket job U-Shaped)
Spare tire winch (was broken, ordered rust free off ebay)
Master clutch cylinder (broke by pedal on push rod part was buckling wouldn’t engage clutch)
Slave clutch cylinder (since I replaced master, why not)
Tailgate key cylinder (didn’t have key, ebay purchased new)
Skid plate (missing, BM salvage purchase, bedliner painted)
3 broken skid plate bolts (drilled out, tapped, installed new)
Shifter seat, Marlin Crawler (popped out of 1st gear)
Shifter socket, Marlin Crawler (popped out of 1st gear)
Tailgate Torsion Bar (insulated rubber grommets fixed bad rattle)
Removed Forward Stabilizer Bar (Broken bolts, connecting rods bad, will replace later)

My advice, search search search! Dont rush things! If it's a 3.0 make sure you check the head gaskets, VIN for repair history with toyota, take a mechanic with you or be schooled on what to look for.. Craigslist is full of shiesters.. Make sure your VINS all match on the doors/glass/frame, etc make sure the vehicle wasn't parted together or built from scrapped out parts then painted, I had a friend that got that one pulled over on him.. Check radiator fluid for specs of stop leak (coppery colored stuff) check all of your moving drive shaft parts for leaks or "Too Dry" spots that appear cleaner than the rest of the parts around it.. Thats about it.. Good luck!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I dont trust the sales man on what he spent. These trucks are starting to show age and PO abuse and neglect. I would look at it what it is worth in parts and that would be what I would base my offer on. Trucks usually are worth more in parts then whole. It looks to be still fixable if you can do the work but like the voiddweller just showed on his runner, there are going to be several issues that will come up after you getting it.

I have worked on trucks in far better condition and still have spent a few thousands getting them back into shape. In my way of thinking is if you have the skills, funds, time, patience, and place to do all the work, it is cheaper to start with a solid truck go thru it from bumper to bumper.

voiddweller did a great job on several issues on a great truck, then you have to deal with all the hack jobs on the wiring and other fixes that are most likely on this truck or any used truck for that matter. Most of those fixes you are going to have to deal or similar as well. I dont see it being more then 1500 at best and that is if the drive train is in great shape.

Mr.Utah

It sounds like the general consensus is: It's a no go for 5k, Look around and possibly travel to find a better deal, do not trust sales people, plan on putting more time and money into repairs than planned. If you still want this truck, don't believe they put $1100 into it and check the frame, etc. take them the offer in cash and walk away if they do not accept.
Let us know what you do........

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Shop around. I use craigslist a lot. Skpe is your friend, you can talk and video the vehicle at the same time. Post a want here on this board. Look in the desert states for rust free's, and stay out of the NE & rust belt States. Time is on your side, some guys bought beaters by mistake but turned them around. If you feel the need to rush; walk away from the deal.

roadtrekker

Looks like you have to spend a lot of money on body repairs. I say do not buy it.

dromomaniac

Seems like your neck of the woods sees a lot of corrosion. Living in the southwest, I wouldn't buy it. Full stop. But, if that kind of rust is a fact of life where you are, then I'd go to $2500. I'd also make sure to have a couple grand set aside to bring it back to life.

Sounds like you want this truck to be a DD type. I'd be nervous about the heads (valves, gaskets) and a bzillion frozen bolts (because of the rust). Keep shopping!

shadowbirdie

Only as it is an original San Diego County rig, 22RE 5speed engine/MT combo runs strong at 238K.
Lots of small and a couple big projects, perfectly intact body with absolutely no rust.
Complete R&R of the PS system known at time of purchase.
The other might be the gear driven T case I want to keep (no chain drives)
I wouldn't have jumped if it had been V6(especially the 3.0 for known reasons)
5K No Way especially looking at that body, I like real metal..
You might have to take a road trip to find a good candidate, mine came to me in Idaho.
And it's not the DD, at least not yet..
Good Luck

3rnr

Thank you all very much for the replies, advice, tips, hints, etc. as I appreciate it a lot. I did stay true to my word as I had told the man at the dealership and went to look at the pickup today, and I'm glad that I did. Most of the rust seems to be heavily concentrated on the fenders, quarter panels, bottom of doors, shocks, and leaf springs; but above that it actually isn't too bad and the bottom of the box looks okay, too. I was expecting to find a terrible mess of rust on the undercarriage but it was undercoated a while back and it wasn't nearly as bad as I had thought it would be (surprisingly!) Anyway, I took a good look at the engine and even took it for a test drive on the Interstate and - I hate to say it - but it even drives better than my current '95 4Runner! All of this aside, however, it does have rust and it does need the fenders replaced, patch panels around the rear wheels, shocks replaced, and some POR15 in a couple scattered areas here and there (mostly underneath). I offered $1,800 cash for it after my inspection and test drive and subtly hinted I might go up to $2k, but the guy at the stealership only went down $1,000 and that was it. So I politely told him to keep me in mind in case it "sits too long" or if he gets another pre-'96 Toyota pickup in (with less rust of course). He understood my passion for older Toyotas and said I was about the only guy that had came in that was actually interested in that old thing, but he made it sound like his boss or his boss's boss were sticklers for the price range they were in. So, it is what it is I guess. I left the stealership with a wad full of $100's in my left front pocket and if they want that money, they're more than welcome to call me back when they come down considerably on their price. I left on a good note with the car salesman and in the mean time will continue to look for something older, and I actually have a few friends in various parts of the country looking for me also, so who knows when or what I will end up with, but I guess that will be determined in time to come. And thanks again for the replies in this thread. I'll post a reply at some point whenever I find something, could be a few weeks... or a few years... never know, that's what I love about life, I don't make plans - I just have ideas.

94bomber

Wow glad i live in Texas. I paid 600 for my 94 regular cab with a 3.0. Had a rod knock good thing im a technician i have less than $1500 in it now