shoes138

ill grab you some pics if you want, i wanna say there cast i think the 3vz-fe are forged according to Bumpin Yota

chimmike

that's plenty of power for me on stock internals. Hell....if I were to squeeze 200whp out of this thing, it'd be close to 250ft-lbs at the wheels (which is a good bit)

I am familiar with Pauter and Arias's stuff (been to PRI twice now, and I built a turbo 350z, as well as a turbo SR20 powered sentra and a custom turbo setup on a '01 1.8L sentra)

I'm thinking for this motor.........how about something like a carb setup? Easy elimination of the pain-in-the-arse and too-small AFM......easy tuning with FI (preferably for a blower....tuning carb and turbo isn't the easiest thing).......

Either way.......so both the rods and pistons are cast eh? Hmmm....that's crappy. But they must be decently beefy if you think they can handle upwards of 300whp.

My question is: Revs. IIRC this is a bucket/shim style valvetrain, and with the bore/stroke of the 3vze, would lend itself to producing higher revs assuming everything was balanced properly, and a good cam to match. Any thoughts on this? It'd definitely widen the powerband......which is ALWAYS useful!

chimmike

20psi on what turbo?

lol. Don't go spouting off PSI numbers just yet. You need to find a turbo that can match the type of powerband you're looking for. Running that much boost usually means a lag time depending on the turbo, and then that means you won't get much in the low end (coupled with low comp. pistons, even more torque lost down low before boost)

IMO, best setup for the 4runner, most useable power, would include a custom twin setup using something like T25's or T28s, about 10psi each (which should net something like 300-350whp on dual T28's, possibly more).....running much more boost than that will be laggy.....and you have to match a cam with that.

As much as I love turbos (and believe me,,,,,I'm a turbo man all the way), I'm seriously considering picking up an old twin screw setup from the 3.8L pontiac GTP. Instant-on boost from idle means excellent low end torque, perfectly useful for off-road performance.

Just what are your goals? Set that first and foremost, then choose your route from there.

And remember you have to have a drivetrain that can handle that type of power!

shoes138

cant you go twin turbos then have one turbo kick in the boost at low rpms then have the other turbo kick in at higher rpms?

Weasy2k

The 3vz-fe and 5vz-fe are forged and can handle anything you throw at it...from some reports i have heard that the 3vz-e is only cast....

chimmike,
That is a standard for cast rods/pistons and im talking about PERFECT tuning here...example being the 3s-gte...people have hit 325-350whp with those motors and blew them up with stock internals...then there are the few who know how to tune and time everything perfectly that have seen 400whp on stock internals (headwork done of course)...

Im going to ask the rep at pauter to examine the rod to see what they are made up of. I didn't have much time to really look into the rod here as they got here late and i shipped them out right away.

As for the rest...yea pistons are cast like all toyota v6's are with the 5vzfe and 3vz-fe having the strongest piston set of them all and they both have seen 350+ whp several times no problem...with stock ecu! Heck my 180k mi engine has seen thousands of miles worth of detonation when i was testing some things out with the trd s/c....bullet proof...


Valve train,
Only ty things is that these have the larger pucks vs the rest of toyota engines have either the small size or the more common medium...this eliminates shimless bucket setups but people have revv'd shim over bucket setups to over 8k rpm no problem...i dont see that being a problem at all.
I have 2 styles of camsets designed and i can make pretty much anything as long as the head is worked along with it as when i get the cams regrinded to make a very long duration or high lift it requires lots of material to be removed, but with my upcoming release of high-flo longer tip valves anything is possible!

Do you have a picture of the crank on the 3vz-e?

Weasy2k

Its possible but pointless...the supras did that and everyone removes the second turbo and runs a larger turbo.

If i recall though shoes you want to do drags with this engine right?

chimmike

Actually I've never seen the 3vze internals in person myself so I'm curious about them.

shoes138, that's a system used on the new powerstroke in ford's. It's overcomplicated and a pain in the arse to deal with. Properly sizing your turbos (especially with today's great ball-bearing options) will eliminate the need for sequential setups.

Weasy2k

^ agree 100%
Plus where the hell you going to find the space for 2 turbos...would be tricky!

Im not going the turbo route myself as appealing to the entire performance crowd is my goal (on and/or off road)

chimmike

I'd looked under there one day and my best guess is that for a twin setup you'd have to actually rear-mount them (spare tire area) which would be a HUGE mess of piping either way, and somehow have to run it all back to the intake manifold, etc.

Weasy2k

^ ugh! No thanks Single turbo is nice...or even supercharger.

CoedNaked

Weasy (Johnny)

I'm gonna be honest. While the options you are discussion about are cool, I think you might make yourself more money, and appeal to more users, if you could make mods that are 1) Easier to do/deal with 2) That work with the stock 3vze motor or compliment most of the stock motor 3) That won't compromise the reliability of the motor 4) That increase performance to such a state that individuals in here forget their idea of a 3.4 swap and instead stick with their 3.0 with some modifications that put it nearly on par. What you are doing in my opinion is great but is more like a project that about 80%-90% of the guys in here will oooh and ahhh at but would never do in a million years.

For example, lets say you sold a "modification" kit for the 3vze owners. In this kit would include your cams with all the installation gear which you have helped develop, LCE or NWOR headers, and a 2 1/4" mandrel bent exhaust, with high flow cat, all in a basic bolt in package which may or may not require some profoessional help but is probably doable by the average user. Also include meticulous, to the tee, instrutions on how to install these various items and some tips, perhaps a recommended tool list - a do it yourself guide if you will, with some things to watch out for. I would also spend some money on dyno testing. Dyno a stock 3vze, a stock 5vzfe, and then dyno a modification kit 3vze. Cams, Headers & exhaust aren't mods that fart around too much with the internals of the engine but as a team could yield big enough gains to reverse peoples considerations for considering going to a 5vzfe swap and save them money and hassle in the process.

While you may use all the American/Canadian/Aussie made parts all you want, you are still not an engineer. Toyota engineers have proven with this engine, albeit with the odd head gasket problem, that it is a very reliable machine that can go for hundreds of thousands of miles without major repair. The internals have proven plenty strong and aren't the weak spot in these engines, unless maybe you're boosting it PSI with a turbo or supercharger, but that's not the average guy. The average guy with the 3vze just wants 5vzfe power. That's it. That's why they go to the 5vzfe swap. So I strongly suggest you can either appeal to the masses, or appeal to the few...it's your call. I'm not gonna complain if you manage to build up a few really cool high power 3vze engines, but at the same time a bunch of guys will be doing 5vzfe swaps in the process instead of buying some kind of kit that someone such as yourself can researcha bit, put together, and market and sell.

For example I"m curious about how these LCE headers are panning out. They sound like a quality product online. I bet if you took the LCE headers, and then put them in your kit assuming you research them and how they installa nd how they perform, then have a shop somewhere professionally mandrel bend you up a bunch of full exhausts including the crossover pipe complete with high flow cat, and say a Borla or magnaflow muffler (these sound good and flow well on this engine) you could have a kick ass system. You would gain points if you could focus on all the little details like including the right gasket, having all the hangers line up with the stock hangers as well as good clearances from the frame, spare tire, and leaf springs like the stock systsem runs, etc. And then market your cams as an addition for however much $$$ for this kit if you want an extra however many HP (this you can confirm with advertised dyno information) you will find some buyers.

chimmike

I'm really curious if there's a simple way to bypass the restrictive AFM on this motor (or by using the 3vzfe AFM if it allows higher flow?) which will probably yield significant gains coupled with the bolt ons....

Weasy2k

CoedNaked thank you for your input, its input like that which really helps me figure out what most people want to see.

The reason i have announced the piston and rod stuff is because when somebody emails/pms/calls me and tells me that they want some performance stuff i will go out and get them made once they are made i add them to my catalog and announce to others who may be interested in the same product so i can get more made at the same time.

I have a entire list of products i am trying to get and some im trying to get made All you mentioned is on there...i am a small company with only me running it and with 8 mr2's in shop here waiting to be worked on so time is limited for R&D.

Oh i left out Japan as a place i would go for products

In time i hope to have much more then i do now thats for sure, I just am working with what i specialize in right now and that is engine builds the rest will come with time.

Again thanks for your input man!

Weasy2k

Im also working on that in a couple weeks SMT7 has that ability.

shoes138

wow lol ok i guess i shouldnt twin turbo the motor then. Yea i would like to drag it n for her to be a trailer queen also. N prolly some time ill drive it on the street.

Weasy2k

^ and by saying that a large turbo would be just fine As you wouldn't really care about low rpm torque like many people would.

Bumpin' Yota

Johnny I have a 3vze block COMPLETELY torn down currently. If you need pics of that crank, tell me what exactly on it you want me to take pics of. Pic size is 3488x2616 pixels and about 6Mb each. Also how close does the pic need to be? My limit is about 2mm away from the lense.

Also I have a single cylinder head for you - I bought it to get dimensions to have headstuds made....


Quick question, the finish needed for the head and the block for MLS HG's...is the finish universally the same for all multilayersteel HGs?

chimmike

I definitely want to hear about this. I'm talking simple solution though, nothing majorly expensive requiring a full standalone hahaha

paulmofyourhand

i see that you are using Hydra to tune the 3.0.

iirc that hydra system alone is $1200+ ?

$1800+1200 hydra+supporting mods= very expensive?

How are you going to cool down this modified 3.0?

Bumpin' Yota

A few degrees cooler thermostat should work just fine. Either that or a 5vzfe radiator, which if im not mistaken, is the same.