abecedarian

almost.

GO_BLUE!

My '92 3.0L was due for a coolant flush, with 113,500 miles on her. The last time it was flushed was well over 4 years and 50K miles ago. The green Prestone looked as good as new.

But after reading these postings, I had the mechanic flush her all out, including the rear heater, and replace it with Toyota Red. I bought Distilled Water, but since the Toyota Red comes premixed 50/50, I didn't need it.

I don't expect to flush and fill her again for another 5 years and/or 200K miles. I'm about to drive it from California to Michigan (in the winter) and then to Washington D.C. I'll let you know how it goes.

-Tom

85excab

pee works wonders in the cooling system

flyingbrass

Sounds similar to my negligent coolant changing schedule. Appearance doesn't mean much. My coolant always looked fine. Check out the pics in my rebuild thread of the erosion around the water passages on my block's deck. Ungood. That happened using green and not changing it often enough.

Both old style green and Toyota Red should be changed fairly often. 2 years, 3 max. If I use green again I'll probably change it every year.

From what I've gathered, green does a great job of protecting aluminum (silicates didn't hurt my water pump or any other aluminum that I can tell), but only does a fair job protecting iron. That matches what I see in my engine.

Toyota Red is supposed to do a better job protecting iron. Red is considerably more sensitive than old green to hard water. Be sure to use only distilled.

Red would be a no brainer except it costs $26 a gallon here.

Are you sure you got red? I think only Toyota's pink comes mixed 50/50, and that's an OAT, not good for radiators with solder.

Matt16

I wouldn't ever use red, not because red is bad, but if I ever got a coolant leak in the middle of nowhere, I want to be able to fill up with that Ma and Pa's Gas Station carries... green coolant, without needing to flush the system. Something to consider if you go wheeling or do road trips.

sb5walker

x2 what flyingbrass said - the appearance of coolant has no bearing on whether the buffering capacity has been depleted. A pH test will tell you if its overdue; you would have to test reserve alkalinity to know exactly where it stands. As mentioned, conventional inorganic coolants like Toyota Red & Prestone Green (the only kind that can safely be used with copper-brass-lead rads & heater cores) should be changed every two years, 30k miles or below 7.1 pH, whichever comes first. Beyond that, you run the risk that all the corrosion inhibitors have been used up by the acids formed by the breakdown of the glycol, and when the coolant becomes acidic, corrosion of the engine & radiator/heater core begins immediately. There is some evidence that Toyota Red outlasts Prestone Green; so long as mileage is under 30k miles, you might get 3 years out of it, but in my mind that's a foolish place to try to save money.

There is no coolant aside from the waterless types that can be used anywhere near 200k miles; even the most ambitious vendors of modern HOAT type coolants only claim "up to" 150k miles, but hard experience has taught that 4 years 100k is probably the upper limit for OATs and HOATs. As mentioned, those cannot safely be used in our trucks without changing rad & heater core to aluminum.

Also, people seem to whine a lot about spending around 50 bucks for a couple gallons of Toyota Red every two years, and then appear to think nothing of spending 4 times that on oil and filters in the same time period. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense - why do you spend more money on lubricant without complaint while complaining mightily about spending less money on coolant??? Aren't they both necessary preventative maintenance?

Also as mentioned by flyingbrass, the premixed Toyota coolant is the Pink HOAT stuff; Toyota Red is sold concentrated and must be mixed with distilled water.

Toyota Long Life Red Coolant: concentrated (must add distilled water), inorganic, phosphate coolant. The Right Stuff:





Toyota Super Long Life Prediluted Pink Coolant: already mixed 50/50 w/water, hybrid organic acid coolant (HOAT) - organic acid salts mixed with inorganic phosphates. Intended for newer vehicles that have aluminum radiators and heater cores. Not a safe choice for our trucks because organic acid salts are corrosive of the solder, copper and brass radiator & heater core:




That is a valid point, however in our trucks and 4runners you wind up needing only a small amount of the second gallon of antifreeze, and I carry that nearly full gallon in the truck exactly because it isn't as widely available as Prestone. But Prestone Green is getting harder to find these days, too.

toyospearo

I just got done flushing out TWO Yotas. An 85 22r and my 94 22re. I did the whole distilled water flush, repeat, fill thing. I put in the 22re t 180 degree thermostat and the red "right stuff" coolant. I don't know if it will do a damn thing different buy at least it will make me sleep better!

GO_BLUE!

Well I must say,

I have learned more about coolant in the past 48 hours than in the past 30 years of my driving experience. I guess GONE are the days of just throwing some Prestone in there and letting it sit for 3-4 . . 5,6,7 years.

So here's the stuff my radiator guy put in my Runner:





It's the red stuff, the stuff I read about here on this forum post. $20 bucks a bottle. He tells me that it was already 50/50 mixed which I think is his way of saying that he didn't use any of the 5 gallons of distilled water I bought & left in the back seat. Instead he musta used tap water. Oh well. At least he flushed the old green stuff out real good including the reservoir and ran both the front & rear heaters. New thermostat, hoses and clamps.

Here's the pic of my new radiator:





I saw the old radiator (remember only 113,550 original miles on the Runner... it was the original radiator installed in Nov. '91) and it was caked with crap pretty good. I guess that's 19 years of use and abuse. Anyone know what radiator this new one is? I hope it is compatible with Toyota Red coolant. I'm guessing it is an aluminum radiator which means I shouldn't have used Toyota Red.


Probably the best lesson learned here is to flush & fill it at least every other year. No more "eyeballing" it to see if the coolant is brown. And now I gotta throw out my antifreeze tester and buy a hydrometer. And pH test strips. Why does it have to be so complicated now?

Required Reading: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...nt-faq-192781/

-Tom

flyingbrass

Yeah, coolant isn't coolant anymore. And it's not an easy topic to figure out. I spent a fair amount of time researching, which isn't easy with all the nonsense floating around, to arrive pretty much at what sb5walker has so nicely summarized in his posts here.

GO_BLUE!, that looks like an aluminum radiator to me. Red won't hurt it. The problem is using newer coolants with older radiators (and heaters) that use lead solder. OAT and HOAT coolants don't protect those joints, resulting in erosion of the solder. Look up "solder bloom."

What I wonder is how well old green and Toyota Red compare in protecting ability when changed regularly. Had I flushed every year or two, maybe green would have performed as well as Red. I don't know. Any thoughts?

I'm undecided but considering using Red after my rebuild. I can't afford any more iron erosion. If, and that's a big if, Red truly protects iron better, then it makes the most sense in my case.

I'm planning on using straight distilled water for the initial fill. Drain soon after, and depending on how nasty the water looks and what comes out maybe refill again with distilled to use for the next few runs. Then drain and add coolant. Does this sound like a good plan?

Carquest stocks or can order Toyota Red, so if you have one nearby you might compare their prices with your dealer. The Carquest here wants $26ish a gallon.

Whether you're a red or green advocate, that much for a gallon of antifreeze is f'ing nuts!

sb5walker

GO_BLUE!, sounds like you got a mechanic who confused Toyota Red with Pink. The big question is whether he added water or just used the Red stuff straight. Try testing it with your antifreeze tester (which is the same thing as a hydrometer, btw, just different name). If all the little balls float, he probably put it in there straight. To be sure, draw some AF out of the radiator with a turkey baster and put it in a measuring cup, then add an equal quantity of distilled water. If the coolant was pure Toyota Red, then after diluting 50/50 with distilled water the freeze point should be in the mid -30s F. If the coolant was already diluted, then diluting it again would give a freeze point around 10 deg F. Always test coolant when it is near room temp - when hot, it reads less AF than there really is because hot coolant has less density.

If it's pure antifreeze (well, it will have SOME water mixed in left over from the flush), you need to drain maybe 45 percent out and backfill with distilled. Pure antifreeze does not transfer heat well at all and can cause head gasket damage from the heat stress. If it has already been mixed 50/50 and not with distilled but with tap water, you'll have to choose whether to take a chance and leave it in, or take it back to the shop with another couple gals of toyota red and distilled and make the idiot redo the work, right this time. Unfortunately phosphate coolants and tap water do not mix well AT ALL. That's why european carmakers don't use them. The phosphates react with the minerals and can form white goo which can clog that nice new aluminum radiator of yours. Also, the minerals significantly deplete the corrosion protection of the antifreeze. If you decide to leave it in, get that pH test paper and check it regularly, and I would figure on replacing it in a year.

BTW, don't worry at all about using Toyota Red with an aluminum rad - it does fine with aluminum. It has to: the heads are aluminum. In fact, since your heater core is still lead/copper/brass, Red or Green are the only two safe options, unless you want to find out just how much fun it is getting at that heater core, haha.

flyingbrass, as far as the relative corrosion protection abilities of red and green, I think they are both "good enough" in an engine that doesn't have corrosion already, if the coolant is changed often enough. DEFINITELY not over 2 years with the green. But I can speak from experience that if you have ever allowed the coolant to turn acidic and cause the block to become rusty, as I unfortunately did, there is a huge difference between red and green. After discovering rusty coolant in my veezy, I had a shop with a coolant flush/fill machine flush the coolant out and replace it (with green - this was years ago and I didn't know what I know now). I knew the guys at the shop and they said it took like the equivalent of six flushes and there was STILL rust in there, but after working on it most of the afternoon they finally just did the 50/50 fill. A month later - total rusty coolant again.

I did the next flush myself, using a hose and then distilled, and refilled again with green and distilled. And again, a month later, TONS OF RUST. GRRR. By this time I had learned about toyota red and did another thorough flush and filled this time with red, and a month later - YAY! Still red and mostly clear. It took a year for the red to get as rusty as the green did in a month. Have done a couple fills since then, and each one lasts a bit longer. Just last month, I did another drain and fill, the red had been in there just 4 months shy of two years, and it was only slightly rusty. So in my experience, the red beats the green hands down when it comes to iron corrosion.

I'm not real clear how long you are contemplating leaving the distilled in there. I certainly would not drive the vehicle with only water. That's asking for trouble - a lot of trouble. Distilled is great for flushing, or for the last stage of a hose flush, but put coolant in there before you drive the vehicle. Maybe that's what you intended and I just misunderstood your post, lol.

I do agree that relative to the probable cost of manufacturing it, toyota is giving it to us in the prone position with what they charge for the stuff. I just try to look at the annual cost and since its a lot less than I spend on oil and filters, I just look at it as the price for using the best tool for the job.

Now if only someone would come out with an aluminum replacement heater core for my truck, I'd replace my old core & rad with aluminum, fill with Zerex G-05 and forgetaboutit!

toyospearo

My old radiator fluid in my 94 looked pretty bad. I bought the truck in 2007 and this is the first time I changed it. Who knows how long it had been before that. I bought a flush kit and used it on the 85 Yota. The 85 already had the TEE in it for flushing. My 94 didn't. I talked with an ex toyota mech. friend of mine who suggested not to cut the rear hose and install the TEE for a few different reasons. Instead I took off the back hose and ran the garden hose up to it. After that I drained and filled the system with distilled water. I was amazed after flushing out the distilled water how much more brown crap came out. I think it is important to do at least 2 flushes of the system. The same thing happened in the 85 Yota. I added the Red coolant, the new thermostat and distilled water.
Thanks everyone for the input. I now have a much more clear understanding of the system, its workings and what is needed!

Just Learning

i use the red with deminerlized water-- pure water( make it at work) ph should be on the alkalinity side

Just Learning

i should add deminerlized is not distilled h20 it has mmhos of .28 and sio2 of .010

ChzSoda

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, but just to let everyone know:
Most dealership parts-counter guys will cut you a deal if you buy a gallon or two of concentrate, and a case of oil filters all at the same time.
On my last trip I got Denso filters 10 for $50, and red concentrate $18/gal.
Once you factor in doubling the amount of coolant with distilled water, it all costs about the same as Fram's and Prestone would. But of course the quality is much, MUCH better.