Elton

ive been using the napa 1516 filter for awhile works good i just dump 6qts of oil in

Tubbyfatty

Ive read that huge page about the filters, its long but its good reading. Lets see if i can find it.

So heres the one i read. Its ALOT of reading but its good lol. http://www.corolland.com/oil-filters.html

So if you dont mind, what did you pay for filters at the dealer?

Jay351

I pay like 6.50 a filter, but the guy told me if I got a case he would knock 10%off.

sb5walker

4 bucks the last time. In the nineties I was getting them for 3.

I just say "if you can do 4 on the oil filter I'll buy 10 of them" Almost always works.

8lugnuts

Yeah, I hear that about that oil pan. A neighbor/mechanic showed me a performance tranny pan he put on his Dodge Ramcharger(since he tows heavy stuff with it), it had a deeper footprint so held a little more tranny oil plus had fins running the length of the pan front-to-back for extra cooling.

Years ago I actually saw heat spreader coils slipped onto an oil filter, don't know how effective they are but I know for certain that heat spreaders on computer RAM chips make a big difference, especially if you're overclocking.

As far as oil filters go, I try to stick with factory but when not available I use Fram or Purolator, never had a problem with them and probably would not know how to identify one in a oil filter.

I have always used 5W30 M1 full syn. in my Yota.

GA22RE

Agreed.

8lugnuts

SB, I am curious to know your source for the in-depth analysis on the Frams/Purolators. Do you or any other posters here have some supporting info on why the Toyota and/or Wix/NAPA Gold filters or *better* than the others, or is there other posts/info on here you can point me to?

I love reading automotive tech stuff and learning as much as I can.

8lugs

GA22RE

I'm going to try to find some as I would like to read up on them again. For the most part what I've personally experienced with Fram Oil Filters working as an Automotive Technician seems to coincide with other Tech's across the country: the Filters are too restrictive and as the oil gets contaminated they only get more restrictive. Premature bearing failure and dry starts were the most incidents that I saw in shops caused from these filters. I know opinions will vary and some may disagree with what I have said but I am going to try to locate an independent test conducted on these filters and their competitors. Japanese Engines (Toyota and Nissan) seem to disagree with these filters right off the bat. I have had many a customer come in after have had their oil change at another shop complaining about dry starts. It never ceases to amaze them at the difference a Toyota or Nissan oil filter makes. I strongly feel that both these Manufacturers desire a good check-valve system (inside filter) in place for their ultra reliable power-plants.

sb5walker

I had saved the pages somewhere and had to track them down. One of the sites lost its images but I found a copy on the internet archive:

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfi...lterstudy.html
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfi...ilfilters.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200801301.../filters.shtml
http://www.corolland.com/oil-filters.html

sb5walker

Just did some huntin online and found an update to the Oil Filter Study:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html

With a section on filters for common Toyota applications:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/toyota.html

And another site looked interesting:
http://home.mindspring.com/~cewhite3nc/index.html
http://home.mindspring.com/~cewhite3nc/id15.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~cewhite3nc/id3.html

Pics of the innards of many filters:
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...prev_next=next

Oil Filters Dissected:
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/gen...dissected.html


There ya go, Lug. That oughter keep ya busy for a while

8lugnuts

Awesome resources SB! Thank you for these!

Jay351

I use purolator filters on every vehicle I work on, except my yotas that get yota filters.. to bad they cost me over 6 bucks each!!!!

Some of the best aftermarket filters out there, bob the oil guy agrees!

sb5walker

Yeah, my bad. The filter that is the same as a Fram is the Penzoil, not the Purolator. The Purolator PureONE filter is excellent.

The Toyota filters page linked above (and here) looked specifically at the filters for our engines - it's the only study (I think) of the bunch that did that. It revealed something interesting: because of the different bypass and anti-drainback valve designs, there was a huge variation in filter media area. Turns out that the Wix/Napa Gold filter has MUCH less filter area (104 sq in) than the Toyota filter (160 sq in). So much less, it seems it must have significantly less service life before it clogged and oil just started bypassing the filter media.

So if using the small size filter, it turns out the Toyota 90915-YZZD1 actually IS better than any of the aftermarkets.

I think that really highlights your original question, 8lugnuts: would a taller filter be better? I think that if the taller filter fit, and it had filter media equal in quality to the Toyota (synthetic, not paper) and if the bypass & anti-drainback valves were of good quality, and if it had more than 160 sq in of filter media area, then, yes, a larger filter would probably have a longer service life and probably also would have less back-pressure, especially as it got dirty.

The question is, what filters would fit on a 22re and 3vze? I haven't tried to use a larger filter on my veezy, but I've read there isn't too much extra room. I can't at the moment crawl under and look because I just had abdominal surgery (eek) but I'd love to hear from anyone who has fit a larger filter on there. Jay, you say you use the filter for the 4.7L V8, the 90915-yzzd3 ? Does it fit with plenty of room? I notice from this thread that it has 203 sq in of area which is 27% more than the YZZD1.


(from this thread)

I notice on the Wix site that there is a taller filter that has the exact same width and gasket size as the small size filter that is the "right" size for our engines. The small size is the Wix 51348 (Napa Gold FIL 1348) at 3.4" tall and the taller size is the Wix 51516 (Napa Gold FIL 1516) at 4.8" tall. If the larger filter fit, it would probably be a good filter for our engines. Because the short filter has so little filter media area, I don't think the small size Wix/Napa would be a good choice. Another factor is bypass pressure - both of the Wix/Napa filters bypass at 8-11 psi, less than (as best I can determine) the Toyota filter bypass pressure of 14-15. That translates to less backpressure/more oil flow for the Wix, but also more likelihood that the oil will not be filtered. That's another argument for using the larger Wix but not the small one, since the larger will last longer before clogging.


The small size Purolator PureONE is part num PL10241 and at 3.36" tall, it has the same problem with filter media area as the Wix/Napa: only 107 sq in vs. the 160 sq in Toyota 90915-YZZD1.

The larger size, equivalent to the Wix 51516/Napa Gold FIL 1516 is the Purolator PureONE PL20195 It's 4.74" tall and the same width as the PL10241. If it fits, I'm sure it would be a very good filter, but it looks like both the larger Wix/Napa and PureONE are taller than the Toyota 90915-yzzd3, so maybe they won't be options, IDK.

One thing I've read about the PureONE is that it has a very high filtering efficiency. That means more particles are filtered out on each pass. That's good, as far as filtering goes, but the downside is more backpressure. Backpressure is lessened with more filtering area, so, again, the small PureONE may not be a good choice but the larger one (if it fits) probably is.

Apparently there is an even larger filter that some of the Tundra guys are running. Since it has a larger height and diameter than either of the Toyota filters, there may be more fit issues. It's the Purolator PureONE PL30001

Aside from the size issue, it also has a less tightly specified (and potentially lower) bypass pressure (8-16 psi) than the Toyota yzzd3 and PureONE PL20195 (12-15 psi) I don't know if that would make any difference in practice; it would likely take a lot longer to clog a filter that has so much more filtering area (400 sq in - double the filtering area of the Toyota 90915-yzzd3!)

That is apparently equivalent to the Wix 51515, except the Wix has only 349 sq in and the Napa Gold FIL 1515 slightly less at 337 sq in. Still, that's over the 203 of the Toyota YZZD3 and way over the 160 of the YZZD1 and light years over the small size Wix (104) & Purolator (107).

I should note that the gasket sizes of the jumbo filters (PureONE PL30001 & Wix 51515/Napa Gold FIL 1515) are SLIGHTLY larger in diameter than the stock Toyota gaskets, but just .032" - probably not enough to be a problem.


Would love to hear from folks who know which filters fit and which don't on the 22re & veezy.

sb5walker

A report in the parallel thread over on toynation confirms that the Wix 51516/Napa Gold 1516 does fit on a veezy w/o an oil cooler, which means the Purolator PureONE PL20195 should fit also. Those are some nice options.

I haven't been able to ferret out the area of the Wix 51516/Napa Gold FIL 1516 nor of the PureONE PL20195. My guess is they will both come in near the Toyota 90915-YZZD3. All three filters are very good quality and would probably be good choices - you could choose based on price. I see that 1sttoyotaparts sells the YZZD3 for $3.95 Your local dealer might sell 10 of them at 4 bucks a piece.

Edit: According to this site:
http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-o...n-oilpart5.htm
The PureONE PL20195 has 213 sq. in. of filter media area.

Squeebs

On the 22r(RE) motors, you can fit the big ass filter for older ford cars. Works on 4.7 tundras as well.

8lugnuts

Squeeb, you are right and what you posted here just jogged my tired old synapses. sb5walker, check that 1st post
I made which started this thread. Although my buds and I *did* try the *taller* version filter for our motors, we eventually
learned that we could use the same filters used on the MOPAR 8cyl. motors(like the 318, 360, etc.) in our little turbo 2.2L
and 2.5L motors. Since the V8 filter had the same base plate interface and height it fit perfectly. It's overall diameter was
about 1/2in. wider than the OEM filter and it took an extra 1/2 quart.

I never really considered the *service life* when choosing an oil filter since I change the oil regularly, use 100% synthetic
and whenever I change my oil it is still pretty clear looking. But you guys have given me a lot of homework and a lot to
think about reguarding filters and I appreciate it.

ozziesironmanoffroad

part numbers?im interested in this!

Jay351

Yep I use the tundra 4.7L filter on my girlfriends 22re 4runner

Fits with plenty of room!

Its 90915-yZZd3

ovrrdrive

I forget now who makes them, but I heard a lot of good things about the Walmart brand Supertech filters. Maybe it was Champion or something. I know for sure wally world doesn't make them themselves...

Anyhow, I've run the St16 for years and it's twice the size of the 3614. It's the one from the ford motors mentioned and I think it cross references with a purolator ph16. They switched to the new core a while back so it isn't much longer than the 3614, but it's still almost twice as big around and has about 200% more surface area than the stock 22re one does. Anyone that has spent time on the BITOG forums can appreciate the higher rate of flow the larger filter gives over the smaller ones. Plus as mentioned they take longer to clog. I used it on my truck and still use it on my '03 4runner V8 motor too. Capacity went up about .5 quarts over the stock one.

Last I heard, Bob wasn't running a filter at all. If you want to read on this subject until you're numb, google Bob is the oil guy and read the filter forum. Those guys over there spend way to much time thinking about oils, intervals and filters.

Here's some pics I took a while back. Keep in mind the bigger one has the mesh core in it and used to be twice as long as the smaller one...

sb5walker

ovrrdrive, thanks for the pics and report. The Walmart Supertech ST 3614, I see, is a replacement for the spec Toyota filter, the compact-sized 90915-YZZD1. The Supertech is made by Champion Labs, and is their economy "Ecore" design. It uses thin felt endcaps that separate quite easily from the filter pleats. It lacks a separate bypass valve. The filter media is paper, not synthetic. The identical STP filter, also a Champion Ecore, has 110 sq in, so, they're similar to the Wix/Napa 1348 (104 sq in) and the Purolator PureONE PL10241 (107 sq in). All well below the 160 sq in synthetic media Toyota YZZD1.

Info on the Champion "Ecore" design on these pages:
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/gen...dissected.html
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil....html#champion

It's great to know that the larger sized Supertech ST16 fits on the 22RE since it is the same width and gasket diameter as the jumbo-sized Wix 51515 and Purolator PureONE PL30001 mentioned in an earlier post. The difference is height: the ST16 is 3.2" tall while the 1515 & PL30001 are 5.1". The Wix equivalent to the ST16 is the 51085 (NAPA GOLD FIL 1085) and the Purolator PureONE PL14670.

So, if the larger height is not a problem, it sounds like the jumbo sized filters would fit on a 22RE. I still hope to learn if they will fit on a 3VZE.

What's really interesting about that larger Supertech ST16 is that it has almost the exact same filtering area as the compact Toyota YZZD1: 185 sq in vs 160 for the Toyota!

The ST16 equivalents from Wix (the 51085) & NAPA (FIL 1085) are even a tiny bit worse at 172 & 184 square inches respectively. The Purolator equivalent, the PureONE PL14670, is a bit better at 242 sq in.

So it would be worth it to know if the jumbo sized Purolator PureONE PL30001 would fit, since it has 400 sq in. The jumbo Wix 51515 has 349 sq in and the Napa Gold FIL 1515 slightly less at 337 sq in. Also, the PureONE has synthetic media while the Wix/NAPA uses a paper & glass fiber media, and the PureONE has very high filtering efficiency while the Wix/NAPA has middle-of-the-road efficiency.

BTW, while the economy Ecore design from Champion Labs is (imo) a poor quality filter, their performance design is not. The Mobil 1 and K&N filters are performance design Champions. The Mobil 1 is often cited on the bobistheoilguy forum as being as good as or better than the PureONE in filtering efficiency. Any filter that has a high efficiency is at risk of having poor flow characteristics, so it's better to get a larger sized filter if using one of those brands. The PL30001 equivalent from Mobil 1 is the M1-301 which has 356 sq in and the K&N HP-3001 has 362.

It sounds to me like the Purolator PureONE PL30001 would be hard to beat if it fits.