Elvota

I've been staying out of this thread because my recommendation would be to start with a 3.4... and since the OP originally posted he had no interest in that option... I had no opinion to give.

But....

... the above just plain 'ol isn't true. You can read my thread. I post costs involved. I am not trying to mislead or trick anyone into swapping a 3.4. If you like the 3.0, then keep it. But, a 3.4 swap can be done for at or around $2,000. I did it. Others have done it.

If you go ORS... you are closer to $5000 for sure.

It all depends on how much work you are willing to do. To me, if you are going to put a lot of time and money into a 3.0... and have the skills and tools to do it... you'd be better off putting that much money and time into a better motor.

Since you have not done the 3.4 swap... your statement is a guess.

So... better torque, acceleration, design and HP are not a reason to do a swap.

That doesn't make as much sense to me as it may to you. But in the case of this thread, the OP has the opportunity to build the "perfect" truck starting from the frame up. So why choose a 3.0? The 22RE or 3.4 are much better choices for reasons most of us are aware.

Take the guess of someone who hasn't done the swap, or read the opinions of many who actually have done the swap. Is the 3.4 going to turn you ride into a rocket ship... no. Is it going to pull a heck of a lot stronger than before... for sure.

If you want the 3.0, by all means keep it. To me, you are at a better place than most who have done the swap. Everything is apart, you have to wire anyway and finding a good 3.4 is going to be no more difficult than gambling on a 3.0 rebuilt or used.

If the 3.0 does go... where are you going to be then?

If the 3.4 does go... where are you going to be then?

I'd rather rebuild the 3.4 or worse case if a replacement is required than re-install a 3.4 just as easily.

CoedNaked.... I believe when you do your comparison with your brothers truck yours are comparing a 3.0 equipped pickup to a 3.4 equipped 4Runner. With the massive weight difference between the two, I'd imagine you wouldn't see much difference at all. If you are comparing the same model Toyota's with different motors, then I truly find it hard to believe you don't feel a significant difference.

RobD

CoedNaked's opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

A) he has never done the swap
B) he has never driven a swapped vehicle
C) oh, hell, I just noticed Elvota's post...

You've already got the truck apart. So, obviously you're not afraid of working with your hands. The swap is so easy, mechanically speaking, that it isn't even funny. Now is the time, if ever.

The wiring isn't that tough. There are more than enough of us on here that have done it to be able to help you. You're obviously not on any kind of time frame, so you've got time to do it right.

The 3.0 is a slug. I've had one.

The 3.4 is a blast. I have one.

Mine had, apparently, 344 000 kms (about 215 000 miles) on it when I got it. The original compression test showed 180-185 psi on all cylinders. The mechanics report said that either this thing had been babied, or was a new motor installed at some point. Whatever, it doesn't leak, uses about 1/2 liter of oil between changes, and puts power to the ground in a way the 3.0 never did, even turning 33s. I have put 38 000 kms (over 23 000 miles) since the swap in August.

If you ever have any questions, Elvota or myself would be more than happy to answer them regarding the swap.

RobD

Oh, I also get about 20-22 mpg highway with the 33s. I'm sure if I didn't floor it as often as I do, I'd get a bit better mileage...I just love the way it sounds.

CoedNaked

I've also driven my buddies 2003 Tacoma xtracab V6 4x4 and to echo the statements in comparison to my brothers 96 4runner, it's not a mind blowing difference and his truck weighs about 400 pounds less than mine yet has the 3.4 with more HP and torque as you guys already know. Now test driving an '05 Plus Tacoma which I have done more than once - that is a nice difference and that truck weighs the same. Test driving the '07 Tundra like I did last Summer- I never thought an engine could move a 5600 pound truck with such authority and still have significant reserve power left over. In fact I think I worked out that it would take another 5000 pounds roughly on top of the trucks weight to give a Tundra with the 5.7 the same Pounds per HP as a 3vze equipped truck. That IS a huge difference on paper and can be felt when you drive one.

How about a 4.5 Inline 6 swap from a Lexus LX450 or an FJ80 Landcruiser?
This engine has 212 HP and 275 foot pounds of torque. It makes 90 percent of it's peak torque from I believe it's 1600 RPM's to 4500 RPM's.

I never said NOT to do the 3.4 swap. But it's not the do all end all, and the 3vze isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

For the record, I'm pretty sure all 3vze's were made in Japan. Toyota made Canadian trucks in Japan until 95. They switched the American pickups over to the Freemont California plant around 91-92 but they still produced the engines in Japan. IN mid 95 they switched all of the North American (Canada & USA) production over to Freemont when they unveiled the Tacoma but I'm pretty sure even the 5vz-fe has always been a built in Japan motor, as has the 4.0 LIter in the Tacoma which is apparently still made in Japan.

Elvota

I don't know... how about it...?

Will that motor bolt right up to a R150 tranny, take up almost no additional space and be as compatible in wiring as the 3.4 is to swap in? What are the costs involved?

I don't believe the debate is whether or not there are stronger motors than the 3.4. The debate is whether to swap in a 3.4 or rebuild the 3.0. Actually, the OP's original question was whether or not to get a re-manufactured or rebuilt 3.0 motor and even stated they were not interested in a 3.4 swap at this time.

If the OP was willing to consider any production motor ever made from any company at any cost... then this would be a different thread entirely.

My only goal was to correct the information that was stated about the complexity and cost of the 3.4 swap. I do apologize for getting things so off topic.

Cyberman

Guys, I really appreciate all your input. I didn't mean to start a p***ing match with engine choices. My issue is that I haven't sunk more than $300 on this truck yet and have a lot done. I'm happy with the outcome so far.

I'm a computer guy by trade, and everything to me is a project. I like to have things planned out to the very end (as much a possible). So, I get pretty miffed when i get stuck at a crossroad and don't know which way to turn. To top it off, I've finally got the hard cash to get the majority of this work done. I've got a spreadsheet made up, showing me estimates for every possible option, and my head is spinning.

I've read through all the swap posts again. Other than possible issues with the engine I'll be getting, the only thing I see a problem with is getting the wiring harness (getting an auto, and have a manual). If all goes well, I may still fall within budget. One thing that was swaying me was the cost of the ORS kit. If it weren't for the wiring, I wouldn't need to bother with them. I would have hoped for a lower mileage engine, but my other source wanted a core, and to top it off, it was only a long block.

So, for those who have responded, thanks again. My course is set for the swap, I'll update my rebuild thread as I progress.

Elvota

Is the wiring something you can do with 5 minutes of research before breakfast.. no, but it is more than possible.

I am a bicycle mechanic and had almost no automotive electrical knowledge before I took on this swap. With you being a "computer guy" my guess is you have a significantly greater understanding of electronics and diagrams than I did when I started... which will be a huge benefit.

Take it from me... only 2 years ago I thought changing the spark plugs was a major achievement. A year after that I was so impressed I managed to do a timing belt on my 3.0. Now I have swapped a 3.4 with no ORS parts or assistance. YT helped me immensely. Honestly, I wouldn't have tried it without the knowledge lurking around on this board.

I am by no means a genius (ask anyone I know ). The wiring at first does seem like a nightmare. Anyone can look under their hood or at a Toyota EWD and be completely overwhelmed. The truth is, to swap a 3.4 into where a 3.0 once sat takes around 8 to 12 actual wiring connections. That's it. You still want to pay $750 plus to ORS for a harness??

I don't have a problem with the 3.0. Mine never let me down. I felt the swap would be a big challenge for me and wanted to give it a try. I knew if I was successful I'd be very happy with the performance gains. Running the 3.0 (or any motor for that matter) until it fails is what most people do. But if you swap before that time, you can gain considerable funds from selling the good 3.0 you have now. A used, running 3.0 goes anywhere form $450 to as much as a grand.

[One piece of advice... make sure you know what you need and remove what you need from the 3.0 before you post it on CraigsList ]

Looking back at my swap, I wouldn't change a thing except trying to find a 3.4 without a cut wiring harness. I also could have saved some cash by not going with headers (minus $450) and by using the stock intake (minus $65). If my motor mounts had been in good shape that would have taken another $100 off the final price tag.

I would understand if you make the choice to go with a 3.0. Can't blame you one bit. I just wanted to make sure you understood what it really takes to go the 3.4 route and the gains because of it.

Diesel_Freak

Uhhh... What??? You sir need to learn how to:

A) use punctuation

B) Convey thoughts in a manner that others can understand

And being a guy who HAS a 22re, I don't really know how you can call a 3.4 a 3.4slow (wich might be the stupidest illiteration I have ever heard)...

My advice is to do the exact oposite of whatever this guy tells you.

Cheers

Dave

toy power

Do you know of any good machine shops in your area? I wonder if you couldnt just have your 3.0 rebuilt locally and save some bucks on that rebuild..

Cyberman

I don't have a problem with wiring, I've built my own digital dash before. the problem I'll run into is having a 97 engine with an automatic, going into a 91 with a manual, and not having the CORRECT harness. I read yotaman's thread, and the harnesses are different between the two during that year.

Thought about that, but I'd need a new block to start. Mine has a big chunk taken out of an oil passage from one of the 2 thrown rods.

Elvota

I am confused as to you would be starting with a '97 auto 3.4?

If you shop for 3.4's, just make the goal to get one with the same tranny you are planning to use. That way you won't have any ECM or wiring harness issues.

MonsterMaxx

Take the wiring harness from the donor vehicle. Swap it in complete.

Cyberman

I've been shopping for 3.4s for a while. My best bet to get everything I need is this 97 Runner that's local (it may actually be a 96 - 2/96 IIRC). Everywhere else strips them down, and in the process, cuts the harness. Finding a manual around here is just as difficult. There's one place near Philly wit hat least a dozen 3.4s, only one manual, and they sell the engine as a long block (with a core).

I took some picks of the donor, and after looking at yotaman's Manual ECM, they look similar, even though it's an automatic. Here's a pic, albeit a pretty poor one. BTW, they're delivering the donor and picking it up after I'm done. $800 for the whole shebang.



And the lovely hunk it's in:

Elvota

I see now what you are saying. It took me forever to find a 3.4 with a 5spd... and even when I did the harness was cut.

$800 is a good price, but if you are going to use a 3.4 auto ECM with a 5spd the wiring is going to become much more complex. I might even guess it won't work... as I believe the 3.4 auto ECM will be looking for signals from the tranny. Don't quote me on this... perhaps others will chime in.

I know some here have bought 5spd 3.4 ECM's which is most likely what you'll need to do with this motor. That can add several hundred to the cost of the swap though, and makes your $800 motor less of a deal.

Just make sure you understand what all is involved when trying to get a 3.4 auto ECM and harness to work with a 5spd before you purchase. In my opinion, the hardest part of this swap is finding the motor/ ECM combo that will work for you at a decent price.

tc

$800 for the whole donor truck? Are you allowed to take whatever you want, or just engine stuff?

If you can, strip the $#H!+ out of it, sell the headlights, seats, if it has an elocker you could come out AHEAD on the motor!

Cyberman

Elvota, the only thing I wasn't sure about was choosing the right motor. I've got most of the rest figured out. If wiring and exhaust are the biggest pain to this swap, then I'll just have a small exhaust problem to solve.

I am sourcing a 5sp ECM (89661-3D310). That's the easy part. I can find plenty of those, they're easier to ship than an engine for sure, and all for a little over $100. If I can find or get the ECM side of the 5sp harness, I should be good to go. ORS is my failover for the wiring. I'm still in good shape.

I can't pillage too much. Didn't think of an elocker, and don't know much about them either (although I'm pretty sure I saw the switch on the dash). Will that fit in my truck? Easy to get out? Obviously, they might miss the tranny. Too bad they put that big sunnroof in it, it had leather seats too. My other thought is to try to get the cruise to work in my truck that doesn't have it.

tc

Yes, the elocker would fit in your axle with minor modifications to the housing:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/electric_locker/

Cyberman

Bookmarked. Will the whole axle fit on the truck? I'm not good with fabbing... yet.

tc

Your truck has leaf springs and the 4Runner has a 4 link coil spring suspension, so it will require MORE fab to make the axle housing work.

Cyberman

Oh ya, true. Guess I'll see about pulling it to sell.