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So I just bought an 87 pick up. For the most part everything on it works, and I don’t have major complaints other then my steering. There’s about a third of a rotation of play in the wheel, and when going straight, the wheel is slightly offset. No problem, sounds like it’s slightly misaligned and just about all old trucks have play in the wheel. Other weird things about the steering include, wandering, and pulling left right or driving straight sometimes, for seemingly no reason. Again, it’s annoying, but it’s an old truck and it’s manageable issues. The problem it is when I put it in four-wheel-drive. If I put the truck in four-wheel-drive and I am on extremely slick roads, for the most part I don’t have that big of an issue. The issue occurs any time a tire gains any sort of traction, the car violently jerks left and right. Enough to throw me almost off the road or in the incoming traffic. It’s uncontrollable and pretty terrifying. Now I know you’re not supposed to drive with four-wheel-drive on clear roads and such, but even in bad weather conditions you’ll sometimes encounter patches of the road which offer more traction than others. And this goes beyond clunky steering or funny sounds, it’s a really violent jerk in all directions. Now the owner before me installed 2 inch spacers on the upper front ball joints, a bigger suspension set up that accommodates for the extra 2 inches, and 33 inch tires with wheel hub spacers. He did not touch the control arms, so that outer tie rods end up having a pretty nasty 20° angle to the front of the wheel knuckles. I know that would wear out the tie rod ends faster but would it cost a violent jerking?
anyways the only thing so far I’ve done to try and fix it was replace all the ball joints and tie rod ends which had just about all gone bad. I also replace a CV axles because those had gone bad as well. I haven’t touch the steering box or the pitman arms, though I think aftermarket control arms to hold the steering bar lower would help. But I have no idea what caused the unusable four-wheel-drive, I also need an alignment still, but I don’t know if a misaligned truck would cause this violent overreaction.
So I just bought an 87 pick up. For the most part everything on it works, and I don’t have major complaints other then my steering. There’s about a third of a rotation of play in the wheel, and when going straight, the wheel is slightly offset. No problem, sounds like it’s slightly misaligned and just about all old trucks have play in the wheel. Other weird things about the steering include, wandering, and pulling left right or driving straight sometimes, for seemingly no reason. Again, it’s annoying, but it’s an old truck and it’s manageable issues. The problem it is when I put it in four-wheel-drive. If I put the truck in four-wheel-drive and I am on extremely slick roads, for the most part I don’t have that big of an issue. The issue occurs any time a tire gains any sort of traction, the car violently jerks left and right. Enough to throw me almost off the road or in the incoming traffic. It’s uncontrollable and pretty terrifying. Now I know you’re not supposed to drive with four-wheel-drive on clear roads and such, but even in bad weather conditions you’ll sometimes encounter patches of the road which offer more traction than others. And this goes beyond clunky steering or funny sounds, it’s a really violent jerk in all directions. Now the owner before me installed 2 inch spacers on the upper front ball joints, a bigger suspension set up that accommodates for the extra 2 inches, and 33 inch tires with wheel hub spacers. He did not touch the control arms, so that outer tie rods end up having a pretty nasty 20° angle to the front of the wheel knuckles. I know that would wear out the Tie rod ends faster but would it cost a violent jerking?
anyways the only thing so far I’ve done to try and fix it was replace all the ball joints and tie rod ends which had just about all gone bad. I also replace a CV axles because those have gone bad as well. I haven’t touch the steering box or the steering control arms, though I think aftermarket control arms to hold the steering bar lower would help. But I have no idea what caused the unusable four-wheel-drive, I also need an alignment still, but I don’t know if a misaligned truck would cause this violent overreaction. if anyone’s got any idea y’all are my last hope.
I once ran across a similar issue, it took a game of 20 questions to get the owner to tell me that the rear end had been replaced. Then it dawned on me, they put in the wrong gear ratio and the front and rear axles were fighting each other. On ice it was uncontrollable and on pavement it was like an amusement park ride, bucking and squealing tires.
Tough to help.
Vehicles that have been dramatically altered over stock are a mixed bag, and no two are a like. Some were done by techs with suspension knowledge, while others were piecemealed together by owners who bought a new component with every paycheck and installed themselves.
The previous owner would be very helpful right now in you narrowing down the issue. Did the problem happen after a certain modification, or did the vehicle drive fine for awhile and the problem slowly came on? The tires may offer some insight if worn in an odd way. I assume all four tires are the same size and brand.
Without that history you have a few choices:
1) leave the lift alone and start replacing worn or questionable parts and see what change that creates.
2)Same as above, but start bringing the vehicle down to something closer to stock. Example. With 31" tires you could get rid of a lot of the changes they made. Still bigger than stock, but not so big you have to start changing driveline angles or crank the torsion bars.
An alignment shop well-versed in trucks would be very helpful.
While the symptoms you mentioned may be common for some old trucks, I assure you, not on a Toyota. Something isn't right.
Wheel spacers and ball joint spacers guarantees trouble
The oem steering has a center link which is kept from rotating by the idler arm. The idler arm and pitman arm are intended to swing in parallel as the steering gear receives in put from the steering column and steering wheel. The tie rods are attached to the center link and allow the suspension to articulate with little to no bump steer when the a-arms are set at the OEM ride height specification. With BJ spacers and torqued up torsion bars the PO has ruined the suspensions function. Wheel spacers are the stupidest thing anyone can put on an IFS suspension as it greatly stresses the push/pull forces on the steering as it tries to maintain the toe setting as drive torque and braking loads are placed on the wheels and tires. So check the idler arm as they are the weakest link in the OEM steering. If the arm will go up and down and the center link is able to rotate on axis the idler is shot. This will introduce variation in the toe set which will cause the vehicle to wander and dart depending on the traction and or braking demands placed on the front suspension.
Last edited by Andrew Parker; 01-11-2022 at 02:31 PM.
have you tried adjust the set screw on top of the steering box (loosen the lock nut and tighten the inner screwm and retighten lock nut)? not saying it will cure it but doing this a couple of times over the years helped tighten up my steering
everything people have mentioned a definite possibilities.
Have you checked the rag joints? the u joints on the steering shaft from the firewall down to the steering box
You mentioned ball joints and tie rods replaced, so I'd look next to the pitman and idler arms, as well as check for wheel bearing slop, play in the steering box, and maybe the rag joint. First thing I would do is get a helper to steer the truck while it's parked, so you can look underneath and observe steering parts for any play - like pitman trying to move but having a bunch of slop before the tires actually move. Also check the wheel bearings by jacking up the front end and grab the sides of the tire and try to wiggle the tire to check for play on the spindles/bearings. Those are very simple tests to see what's got excessive play so you can pinpoint the issue. Good luck!
Yeah, I was out of state for a bit but I’m back with my babe so I’ll update you as I find stuff, thanks for everyone’s help, if you couldn’t tell I’m kind of new to the off-road upgrading and I’m super excited to see what I can do. Thanks for your help
So I just bought an 87 pick up. For the most part everything on it works, and I don’t have major complaints other then my steering. There’s about a third of a rotation of play in the wheel, and when going straight, the wheel is slightly offset. No problem, sounds like it’s slightly misaligned and just about all old trucks have play in the wheel. Other weird things about the steering include, wandering, and pulling left right or driving straight sometimes, for seemingly no reason. Again, it’s annoying, but it’s an old truck and it’s manageable issues. The problem it is when I put it in four-wheel-drive. If I put the truck in four-wheel-drive and I am on extremely slick roads, for the most part I don’t have that big of an issue. The issue occurs any time a tire gains any sort of traction, the car violently jerks left and right. Enough to throw me almost off the road or in the incoming traffic. It’s uncontrollable and pretty terrifying. Now I know you’re not supposed to drive with four-wheel-drive on clear roads and such, but even in bad weather conditions you’ll sometimes encounter patches of the road which offer more traction than others. And this goes beyond clunky steering or funny sounds, it’s a really violent jerk in all directions. Now the owner before me installed 2 inch spacers on the upper front ball joints, a bigger suspension set up that accommodates for the extra 2 inches, and 33 inch tires with wheel hub spacers. He did not touch the control arms, so that outer tie rods end up having a pretty nasty 20° angle to the front of the wheel knuckles. I know that would wear out the tie rod ends faster but would it cost a violent jerking?
anyways the only thing so far I’ve done to try and fix it was replace all the ball joints and tie rod ends which had just about all gone bad. I also replace a CV axles because those had gone bad as well. I haven’t touch the steering box or the pitman arms, though I think aftermarket control arms to hold the steering bar lower would help. But I have no idea what caused the unusable four-wheel-drive, I also need an alignment still, but I don’t know if a misaligned truck would cause this violent overreaction.
update. Different account because I lost my old one.
Replaced idler arm, pitman arm. Got new tires and got it aligned. Did NOT fix the problem. Keeps wandering like before and tries to take me off the road. Everything seems to bind really bad and my 4low is 2wd which is probably unrelated. There's also play left to right on my CV axles which may or may not be an issues.
Also big notice, the rear diff is locked. Dunno if it's welded but I'm assuming it is. That may be part of my issue.
If it were me, I’d undo the suspension mods. Almost everything you’ve mentioned as an issue isn’t common on a properly working 1987 4Rnr with IFS. At least my 1987 doesn’t do any of that.
update. Different account because I lost my old one.
Replaced idler arm, pitman arm. Got new tires and got it aligned. Did NOT fix the problem. Keeps wandering like before and tries to take me off the road. Everything seems to bind really bad and my 4low is 2wd which is probably unrelated. There's also play left to right on my CV axles which may or may not be an issues.
Also big notice, the rear diff is locked. Dunno if it's welded but I'm assuming it is. That may be part of my issue.
My '87 wandered as well. I checked all the tie rods, idler and pitman arm, etc. I even adjusted the steering box. I finally decided to replace the steering box with a new box and the problem was solved.
So I just bought an 87 pick up. For the most part everything on it works, and I don’t have major complaints other then my steering. There’s about a third of a rotation of play in the wheel, and when going straight, the wheel is slightly offset. No problem, sounds like it’s slightly misaligned and just about all old trucks have play in the wheel. Other weird things about the steering include, wandering, and pulling left right or driving straight sometimes, for seemingly no reason. Again, it’s annoying, but it’s an old truck and it’s manageable issues. The problem it is when I put it in four-wheel-drive. If I put the truck in four-wheel-drive and I am on extremely slick roads, for the most part I don’t have that big of an issue. The issue occurs any time a tire gains any sort of traction, the car violently jerks left and right. Enough to throw me almost off the road or in the incoming traffic. It’s uncontrollable and pretty terrifying. Now I know you’re not supposed to drive with four-wheel-drive on clear roads and such, but even in bad weather conditions you’ll sometimes encounter patches of the road which offer more traction than others. And this goes beyond clunky steering or funny sounds, it’s a really violent jerk in all directions. Now the owner before me installed 2 inch spacers on the upper front ball joints, a bigger suspension set up that accommodates for the extra 2 inches, and 33 inch tires with wheel hub spacers. He did not touch the control arms, so that outer tie rods end up having a pretty nasty 20° angle to the front of the wheel knuckles. I know that would wear out the tie rod ends faster but would it cost a violent jerking?
anyways the only thing so far I’ve done to try and fix it was replace all the ball joints and tie rod ends which had just about all gone bad. I also replace a CV axles because those had gone bad as well. I haven’t touch the steering box or the pitman arms, though I think aftermarket control arms to hold the steering bar lower would help. But I have no idea what caused the unusable four-wheel-drive, I also need an alignment still, but I don’t know if a misaligned truck would cause this violent overreaction.
see the highlighted parts and tell me if you checked your front and rear gear ratios like I suggested last year
If it were me, I’d undo the suspension mods. Almost everything you’ve mentioned as an issue isn’t common on a properly working 1987 4Rnr with IFS. At least my 1987 doesn’t do any of that.
I think I mightve found the issue. Recently I went wheeling in some snow and my cv axle nut came out so I lost power to that wheel in 4wd. But, just for poops and giggles I locked the hub with the working cv axle and left the broken axle unlocked and low and behold, it still had power. So the front diff is locked as well apparently. A welded front and rear diff, a bit a play in the steering box, and 4wd over 20 miles and hour would cause my havoc right? If so. Where in the hell do i start with replacing my front axle? While I'm at it I was planning on rebuilding the rear with longfields and a detriot locker buuuuut I again, dont know where to start. Anyone got stickies or thread i can go too or have the answers?
I think I mightve found the issue. Recently I went wheeling in some snow and my cv axle nut came out so I lost power to that wheel in 4wd. But, just for poops and giggles I locked the hub with the working cv axle and left the broken axle unlocked and low and behold, it still had power. So the front diff is locked as well apparently. A welded front and rear diff, a bit a play in the steering box, and 4wd over 20 miles and hour would cause my havoc right? If so. Where in the hell do i start with replacing my front axle? While I'm at it I was planning on rebuilding the rear with longfields and a detriot locker buuuuut I again, dont know where to start. Anyone got stickies or thread i can go too or have the answers?
it would have the same effect if your gear ratios were incorrect as long as the front diff isn't welded or locked. I don't think anyone makes a locker for the IFS diffs.
if you jack up the front end while in 4wd spinning one wheel by hand should make the opposite wheel spin the opposite way. that will prove that your diff isn't welded or locked. while you are at it turn both front wheels exactly one turn and count the driveshaft rotations exactly (better to do with two people rotating the tires and with the front driveshaft disconnected) then jack up the rear and do the same and compare the number of driveshaft rotations. if you get something like 4 3/4 turns in the front and 5 1/4 in the rear you have a problem, be as exact as you can, they must be identical.
01-06-2022, 12:40 PM
My 4wd tries to kill me IFS 87 pickup
