Snorkeldepth

So, I have my new Jasper 3VZE, Downey headers, new EGR valve, new EGR modulator, new EGR temp sensor, new knock sensor, new knock sensor wire, relatively new catalytic converter and O2 sensor.

My numbers today:

15 MPH rpm/1841
%CO2 13.9
%O2 0.7
HC (PPM) Max 127, GP 314, Meas 182
CO (%) Max 0.78, GP 2.08, Meas 0.70
NO (PPM) Max 1031, GP 1822, Meas 2388

23 MPH rpm/2946
%CO2 14.4
%O2 0.2
HC (PPM) Max 108, GP 264, Meas 87
CO (%) Max 0.99, GP 2.29, Meas 0.31
NO (PPM) Max 891, GP 1622, Meas 846


The word is that high NO is EGR. So, I've started checking everything out. But, I replaced all the EGR stuff when I solved my code 71 problems. I'm not throwing any codes at the moment. Suggestions?

Thanks. (This is just a little frustrating . . . .)

msw0085

Is your ultimate goal to be clean or to just pass inspection?

If its the latter, I would think a Kwik Kar inspector could be relatively easily plied for much less than the cost of replacing parts.

F0RSAKEN

You mentioned that the engine is new, is it broken in?

Snorkeldepth

It only has 200 "break in" miles so far. It needs to be clean. How would insufficient break in affect the smog numbers? I'm going to dive back under the hood tomorrow morning.

MMA_Alex

is the exhaust new? sounds like the cat may be shot

Crymson

Since all three of your emissions are high, a malfunctioning catalytic converter is suspect.

84sr5yoty

NOX is through the roof so that leads directly to issues with the EGR valve and/or EGR passages. CO looks GREAT, so that means you're getting complete combustion. HC are a little high, but when you get the EGR issues worked out, I bet the HC's will correct themselves.

Edit: Ok, I should have finished reading your post, lol. Check the passages from the exhaust manifold all the way to the intake manifold. You definitely have EGR issues somewhere.

Snorkeldepth

Thanks everyone. It was date night with my wife tonight. We're expecting our first little one. So, I've been paying more attention to family than the truck tonight. I'll be looking more closely at the truck in the morning. I appreciate this family here at YT very much.

Thanks Again!

Snorkeldepth

Well, I studied up on the EGR System section in the FSM (at page EC-74). I went through the "Inspection of the EGR system" section.

1. The EGR modulator filter is clean.

2. Connected a vacum gauge as indicated. (T fitting on top vacum pipe of EGR vavle)

3. The engine started and idled normally.

4. With the engine cold the vacum gauge read zero at 3500 rpm (and I couldn't make the reading jump if I cycled the throttle).

5. With the engine warm the vacum was zero at idle. At 3500 there was a slight vacum (the needle barely moved) (I could make the needle jump if I cylced the throttle). The FSM says that the vacum should be low. But, how low??? As low as a barely moving needle? I connected the R port of the modulator to the intake manifold and got 10 in. Hg (25 cm Hg) at 3500. There was only a brief misfire when I let the throttle down from 3500 to idle.

6. I connected the EGR directly to vacum and the engine immediately died.


I'm a little baffled by my results in step 5. I'll inspect the modulator and the vsv next.

The passage from the exhaust manifold to the EGR is more direct than stock now that I have the Downey headers.

Thoughts?

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

All that stuff from the first post might as well be in Japanese cause it made no sense to me (I know Greek so I didn't say that )

I'm glad I don't live in California.

Enjoy the date night and get back to the truck when the frustration is gone. Amazing what you'll "see" when the brain is not clouded and the spirit is fresh.

Sorry I added to the frustration...

Snorkeldepth

Date night was great! Thanks! Hey, I thought I was the only one who studied Greek . . . . koine in college.

I have a few ideas I'm going to check out after studying the EGR system. I'm no mechanic . . . . just a guy with a little common sense, sometimes. Of course, I'm always open to the common sense of everyone here! I know this will work out somehow and sometime soon . . . . 'cause I need to drive this truck and the no-registration grace period will run out soon.

Anyone think that the Downey header connection to the EGR valve changes the flow of exhaust gas through the EGR to the intake manifold substantially? It's the introduction of exhaust gas into the intake manifold that reduces the O2 going into the combustion chamber and therefore reducing combustion temperature right? Less exhaust gas would yield higher combustion temperatures if that is what's happening . . . . and higher NOx. Anyone else with Downey headers have NOx problems?

I'll keep thinking . . . . even though that's proved dangerous in the past.

Brian, I thought of an interesting idea to fix the problem we talked about. I'll give you a call next week.

Crymson

I hate to see someone struggle through something as frustrating as California Emissions Regulations, on account of my own experiences. Sit back and grab a cold one, its story time...

Earlier this year I had the same problem with high NOx emissions. I had done everything to alleviate the problem including new EGR valve, new EGR vacuum modulator, thoroughly cleared all throttle body ports with high pressure solvent injenction and a few guitar strings, added oil cooler and fuel cooler, had a Toyota dealership check out VSV and double check the proper functionality of the EGR system. What did that accomplish? Nothing.

The 02 sensor was then replaced on the notion of the engine running lean, guess what, it was. Although that did not fix the problem, the car was now running overly rich. Several dabbles into gasoline/ethanol hybrid fuel mixtures, and messing with the AFM spring tension yielded no results. Sick of whole the affair, I succumbed to contracting the Toyota Dealership to troubleshoot the problem. I dropped the rig off in the morning, and received a call later in the afternoon. "Mr. X, our technicians refuse to work on your vehicle, on account of the presence of a 3VZE engine in a 1986 chassis." After failing over seven emissions tests, I decided to end my woes in one fell swoop.

To cure myself of all emissions woes for the lifetime of my rig, I purchased the biggest catalytic converter money could by. Originally designed for 7.5L engines and a test weight of 13,000 lbs, this 21 inch converter (15 1/2" of catalyst) is the Holy Grail of cats. The monster cat was then coupled with an air injection system taken from a Volkswagen Jetta triggered by a digital rpm switch. Upon installing the new catalytic converter I had noticed the O2 gasket wasn't seating properly causing the rich condition. Armed with my arsenal of eco-freindly devices I charged the smog station. "Think it will pass this time?" said the vietnamese smog tech, with a strong hint of sarcasim. The rig passed rivaling if not surpassing ULEV standards.

15 MPH
HC Max 152, Ave 43, Meas 7
CO Max 1.11, Ave 0.16, Meas 0.00
NO Max 1157, Ave 406, Meas 34
25 MPH
HC Max 124, Ave 32, Meas 1
CO Max 1.31, Ave 0.15, Meas 0.00
NO Max 1264, Ave 349, Meas 101

I must say, my knowledge on emissions related matters has increased 10 fold since that date. Just by reading the numbers you can tell what is wrong your air/fuel mixture. High HC and CO is indicative of a rich a/f mixture. High NOx but low HC corresponds to a lean mixture. Now your car will either run lean or rich; a stoichometric ratio will net you mid-low levels in all categories. That is unless your catalytic converter is failing. A high reading in all 3 categories, which presently is your situation, is the tell-tale sign of a bad catalytic converter.

Save yourself the stress, the time, and the money. Myself and another have already pointed out your problem. The catalytic converter.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

OH the great state of California!

If it has wheels and moves under its own power by golly put a tag on it...well, most of the time they dont' care if you even do that. (Alabama)

I got a friend who has a Jeep who has been driving it for over a year now with no tag, no insurance and no intention of getting either and if stopped will "doctor" the bill of sale to get him out of a ticket.

Snorkeldepth

It's only 9 in the morning here. So, I'll grab a second cup of coffee for now. But, thanks tons for the story. It beat anything on the front page of the paper this morning.

I'm only reluctant to conclude that my problem is a bad cat because my Magnaflow cat only has about 50k on it. Now, I put the cat on the truck before I diagnosed the burnt exhaust valve. So, it's had more unburnt fuel going into it than it should have for it's life. I suppose I can drive up the hill and ask Bud to cut off the old cat and weld in a new one and not be out too much.

Thank God the retests at the smog place are only $15. Maybe I should ask them for a ten test punch card and see if I can get a deal.

Some people do crossword puzzles for fun. I work on my truck.

surfmobile

I know everyones said itbut check your cat. its possible for your cat to clog that early if its running real rich

04 Rocko Taco

Its not just Ca Brian, Ga has it too, not like Ca obviously, but we have all that crap too, and I heard it coming your way. Starting in the 'bog' cities. Birmingham is the only one I heard mentioned for first phase introduction. In Ga, only about 2/3 of our counties have emissions testing.

trythis

Why does everyone hate emissions standards for vehicles? It really has an impact on the air you have to breathe. Your food has to breath that air. Dont you want it to be clean and not laced with all those nasty chemicals, don't you want the air to be cleaner than it is?
I guess it is like smoking, smokers want to smoke regardless of how poisonous it is to everyone else in the room/car/restaraunt.

Mikestang

Looks like a bad cat to me. Throw a new one on there and retest.

Snorkeldepth

My original numbers:

15 MPH rpm/1841
%CO2 13.9
%O2 0.7
HC (PPM) Max 127, GP 314, Meas 182
CO (%) Max 0.78, GP 2.08, Meas 0.70
NO (PPM) Max 1031, GP 1822, Meas 2388 GROSS POLLUTER

23 MPH rpm/2946
%CO2 14.4
%O2 0.2
HC (PPM) Max 108, GP 264, Meas 87
CO (%) Max 0.99, GP 2.29, Meas 0.31
NO (PPM) Max 891, GP 1622, Meas 846

My numbers with a fresh Magnaflow cat welded in:

15 mph rpm/1827
% CO2 14.9
% O2 0.1
HC (PPM) Max 127, Ave 34, Meas 98
CO (%) Max .78, Ave .11, Meas .16
NO (PPM) Max 1031, Ave 260, Meas 1273 FAIL :cry:

25 mph rpm/2969
% CO2 14.9
% O2 0.0
HC (PPM) Max 108, Ave 23, Meas 38
CO (%) Max .99, Ave .10, Meas .04
NO (PPM) Max 891, Ave 217, Meas 508

My numbers with the fresh cat and 100 Octane Race Gas

15 mph rpm/1873
% CO2 14.9
% O2 0.1
HC (PPM) Max 127, Ave 34, Meas 91
CO (%) Max .78, Ave .11, Meas .11
NO (PPM) Max 1031, Ave 260, Meas 994 PASS

25 mph rpm/2914
% CO2 14.9
% O2 0.0
HC (PPM) Max 108, Ave 23, Meas 24
CO (%) Max .99, Ave .10, Meas .03
NO (PPM) Max 891, Ave 217, Meas 367

The cat had definitely died. I had my Subaru mechanic buddy check the ingoing temp and outgoing temp and the outgoing temp was less than the ingoing temp. Bud sawzalled the dead cat off and put a spunky live one on. Little did I know that the spunky new cat needs to stretch its legs for a couple hundred miles before it's ready for a test. The smog guy took pity on me and told me about the octane boost trick. Apparently it only affects NO and doesn't mess with the HC or CO. I drove around the corner to the 76 station I knew had 100 octane (the Subaru likes 93). Sure enough I finally passed! I guess I'll find out in 2 years if the seasoned cat comes around and does the job correctly with 87.

Lesson learned: Don't install a new cat in a vehicle with a burnt exhaust valve and drive it for very long if you don't want a dead cat.

Thanks everyone for the help!!! YT Rocks! Now I can move on to more exciting projects like installing my VIAIR compressor system and finishing my interior.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

AWESOME! Congrats!