Mtnmann

One way or another I'm going to find out what's going on in there. If the motor gets swapped I'll tear into it just to see what's going on. I'm still waiting on my mechanic buddy to find enough free time to take a look - hopefully today.

I'm no expert but I find it hard to believe injectors alone did this. But then I consider the fuel pouring out of the exhaust with the new injectors and none when the old ones were put back in and I wonder...

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

I'd try making an injector tester/cleaner and see if one is stuck open.
I made one using a pump garden sprayer and it works pretty good.

HighLux

liquids do not compress. a cylinder full of fuel would smash that plug easily at rpms. my picture i posted.....nothing did that but heat.

Id test my injector harness first with a noid light. if my wiring was right....Id be leaning towards the injector guy. all speculative until you bust the head off or scope the bore.

Still dont understand why you guys are changing injectors. I've got rv head 268 cam, and header and my stockers are totally happy. I feel alot of smoke has been blown up peoples butts about these injectors.

Discombobulated

I second the smoke being blown.........

Gamefreakgc

Umm... only one thing would cause that. A foreign object was dropped down the intake or sucked up/came loose somewhere downstream of the air filter. No amount of fuel would cause that... and also, more fuel would cool the engine down, not overheat it. And if you have chunks of carbon big enough to damage an engine THAT bad, you just need a new engine. Not likely though.

You might find this spark plug chart informative: http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/reso..._condition.jpg

So from here, your best bet is to have your buddy look at it and then make sure that object is not still in the engine. If it is then it is going to cause even more damage. Sounds like though since your new plug is ok, then it has passed through.

Like JBurt said, your valves are probably pretty messed up. Might be damaged as well. I've seen pieces of valves off Toyotas break off and bounce around in the engine before exiting, maybe that's what hit your spark plug. Compression check is best place to start.

And for the record... all mods come with some degree of risk. For those who are successful, the upgraded injectors do add better throttle response and sometimes better MPG's. I've been very happy with mine.

HighLux

there is nothing in his engine. with the interference fit of this chamber and valvetrain...at tds a bolt or nut would explode a piston on him and he would freaking know it instantly and without a doubt. It would be catostrophic noise.

BAMM CLANG BOOM KNOCK BAMM POW

just like that. people would come outside from the house and be like wtf.


For giggles...you could get piston to tdc and scope it. If you had access.

Compression test will tell us if piston and valves are good instantly.


Oh..Im going to say it....here we go. The only way you would see an improvement in response and mileage with the superman bigger injectors...is if yours were clapped out to begin with. How could adding MORE fuel help an already healthy air fuel ratio balanced engine at all?

I bet the noise is a rod knocking. (speculation at best till compression test)

Mtnmann

Update: My friend (a professional mechanic) came over, took a look and thinks it's most likely a foreign object. He also thinks the noise sounds valvetrain related and says whatever it is might be holding valve open. Maybe. He suggests taking off the valve cover and taking a look since it's somewhat easy to get to and a valve stuck open would be obvious.

I might also buy a cheap scope and comp tester from harbor freight since they'll come in handy down the road anyways.

It's gonna be a few days till I have time to take a crack at it. I'm probably going to just do a 3.4 swap at this point. It's a high mileage rig (240,000 miles) with with a tired feeling motor and unknown mechanical history. I was thinking of doing it eventually anyways so right about now seems like a good time. But no matter what that head is coming off at some point soon so we all have closure. I'll check back in when I learn more.

Thanks again for all those who chimed in here and offered assistance!

YotaWoRx

The suspense is killing me!

HighLux

x2. And hey man sorry your rig is pooping out man. No one likes getting forced to spend money before they are ready.

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

i was skeptical of them but i had my #3 stock injector suddenly go out so i decided to take the risk and see what they could do. before i installed them i tested them side by side with the stocks on my homemade injector cleaner and i could see a huge difference in they way they sprayed compared to the stock injectors. the injectors have a much improved spray pattern and gives better atomization of the fuel.
i have a much better idle, better throttle response and i am getting a little better mpgs. i didnt go with the orange ones that are a higher rate though.
while i agree that putting in the orange "superman bigger injectors" and adding more fuel dosent make a whole lot of sense about getting more mpgs, i have to say i was really surprised by how the gray/black ones made my truck feel and act.

HighLux

Since I dont have em. I dont really know. But I do know my factory ecu can add some fuel. There is room left on the fuel table to accomodate a couple bolt ons. I know little Toyota engineers worked hard to select the factory injector. They had a plan. Who am I to mess with that? Works. Dont fix it.

Pep these little motors up a bit. a cam a headr a cold air kit.

There is no upgrade worthy of an anjector swap save a power adder for any of the engines we run.

I think 3.4 with the factory setuo are tuned fat enough to be safe dare I say reliable and power addrer at the same time.

Other than that. Leave these motors alone. Do a motor swap. You go putting a v8 in these things...other stuffs gonna break. Put the money in the diffs and suspension.

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

for me and my engine it wasnt about injecting MORE fuel, its about injecting the fuel in a better more efficient spray patter for a better burn. and im sure the little toyota engineers did a good job at selecting the proper injector for the engines back in the 80's when they were developing these engines, but technology has come a little way since then. so i dont see how an upgrade in technology could be a bad thing or harmful to these engines.
there has been a dozen positive feedbacks on this site alone plus many more others on other forums about these injectors and the benefit of them. that only leads me to believe that they must be doing something good.

by what you are saying, you shouldnt have spent the money on your engbldr head and cam, or the lce header because the designers and engineers from toyota had a plan for that engine and they know more then anyone else to ever approve upon there masterpiece.

Gevo

Although it's true the designers and engineers had their math in line when they chose these injectors, and that cam, and that header... you have to remember they are under very strict design specifications which include cost, manufacture-ability, materials they can and can't use (again cost really), emissions, size/weight restrictions.. etc..

The engineers never have all the freedom they need... henc why aftermarket parts are around. Hell my dirt bike was designed for emissions crap and I got 12 hp more out of a stage 2 hot cam and some carb mods.. imagine the potential of these engines

with tat said, I prefer to leave things stock for the most part because let's face it, most of the time stock lasts longer because as a unit it was designed with those stock parts. BUT, some mods are harmless to longevity, and infact may increase the life even.. (bigger oil coolers )

I also opted for the orange flamethrowers after much debate. I'll let everyone know how they work as well for yet another review for future readers (engine not yet ready to start!)

osv

that is true, new injector technology has improved the spray pattern.

however, if it's one of the injectors with a "v" spray pattern, it was probably designed for a motor with two intake valves per cylinder... when you put it on one of our old motors, it might be spraying against an intake wall or something, which drops the fuel mist out of suspension.

not sure what spray pattern you got, just something to watch out for.

Rusto

I'm anxious to hear about what really did happen.

Was it a stuck injector?
A foreign object?
aftermarket injectors are better, wait, no they aren't?

So many question left unanswered.

This thread makes me happy to have a carb.

I do hope for the very best result for the OP, as I know what's it's like to start trying to improve a vehicle and end up only wanting to get it back to where it was to begin with.

Good luck.

Gamefreakgc

The OP is scrapping the engine, but I don't think he'll be ripping it open any time soon. Don't hold your breath!

I didn't get my advice on here to swap out my injectors, I talked to a local shop that only works with injectors. When I had them cleaned a year ago, he straight-up told me that the 3VZ-E injectors are a stream-pattern and don't work very well. Newer engines have a fine spray pattern with burns faster and more efficiently. Once I saw that a spray-patterned injector existed I bought it. Solid $100 upgrade.

For those who haven't driven with them in, you really can't say until you do. I'm really happy with all the mods I've done so far with the exception of the ignition coil (was more of a repair anyway). I stand by these injectors, but like all mods, they do come with a small risk of something going wrong.

rworegon

After seeing that spark plug it sure looks like something fell into that cylinder....a socket, nut, valve failure?

Mtnmann

Sorry for the lack of updates. Between work and having a two month old daughter I have not had time to turn any wrenches. Hopefully this weekend I can get back at it and start pulling it apart. Plan on getting the valve cover off to see if anything looks obviously wrong and maybe take the header off that side to see if I can peek inside or get any clues there. Going to pick up a compression tester this weekend too.

I did find a 3.4 that's on its way but it won't be here till thanksgiving weekend. I'd love to get the 3.0 back in action so I can take my time with the swap and do it at a warmer time of year but if I get the head off and it needs more money thrown at it than a few new gaskets I'll probably scrap it and start the swap right away.

RSR

To clarify, orange are Denso w/ same flow as OEM. Gray are Bosch w/ the 8% extra flow.

These engines run rich, so Bosch only makes sense if doing the Supra swap (adding more air and recognizing that stock AFM is severely restricting this engine's ability to breathe -- headers and rest of the exhaust and other intake flow improvements are good ideas too) and installing a wideband 02 to adjust to proper stoich.

As far as the technology, things like atomization of fuel were really only being discovered as these engines were first rolling off the production lines. I think a lot of those discovery and improvements were related to computer aided design, but YMMV.

Fuel efficiency wasn't as important then as it is now that the EPA has fleetwide mpg requirements/restrictions... Well, it was important to consumers, but this now dog 3vze was at the top of the class of V6s at that time for MPGs -- the goal was to have more power the 22re and comparable other V6s on the market at the time, which it was...

And the spray pattern -- I think I discussed that over in Gevo's build forum. Think V pattern is a net plus on these engines over stream, and definitely not a detriment...

oldblue

i obviously don't have a dyno to prove it, but my truck feels stronger with the oragne injectors. the real improvement was mpg, 2.5-3mpg's better with the new injectors, no denying that gain. i tried the bosch style first, truck ran like ˟˟˟˟, traded them out with the orange and couldn't be happier. i'm not saying a faulty injector can't flood a cylinder, but it's somewhat doubtfull. even if the injector was wide ass open, it only has miliseconds to get enough fuel to fill the combustion chamber (albeit a small area) until a valve opens and pukes it out the exhaust. i've seen numerous injectors fail and cause a stuped rich condition, black smoke, horrid smell, an engine that runs like poo. but i've never had to do any engine repairs because of a fuel hydrolock. i'd say a small part, a washer, small nut, small pebble, something got dropped down the intake runner without you knowing. ˟˟˟˟ happens, i've done it. what to take away from this experience? immediatly cover your open intake ports (or any hole for that matter) with duct tape in the future to prevent this. of all the overly hyped mods i see being touted on this forum (supra coils, afms, isr mods, fuzzy dice on your mirror) this mod actually gives a real world gain for a modest price.