Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Well I've asked this question on my transmission swap thread but figured I would go wide with it on a new thread since I wasn't getting any responses and Google is not helping me.

Here's the story:

I replaced my W56 about 6 weeks and 1,100 miles ago with a used unit with only 156,000 miles on it. My old one was a remanned unit with 20,000 miles that ended up with crap bearings and a slew of awful noises and unable to hold 4th gear....I prefer to forget it. The "new" one (and new clutch, flywheel, pressure plate and pilot bearing) has been good so far. BUT, since I installed it, it's leaked like a sieve. I'm not only worried about leaving oil everywhere, but about losing oil and another transmission. I had planned to drain and fill with Amsoil after around 1,000 miles anyway, so I'm right around that point...but I want to address the leak that seems to be getting worse.

The Leak:
It appears this leak comes from the steel plate that holds the gear assembly, and is mated on either side by the aluminum transmission housing. The transmission I put in had what looked like globs of FIPG loosely hanging from these seams, so it seems this may have been rebuilt at one time. Please don't give me a lecture on how I should have taken care of this "just in case" before my swap - I already have to myself several times....







My (replaced) transmission now, with the leak:





And every time I park it I see this when I come back:



My Plan/Questions:

Below is a clean example of a W56 clearly showing the steel junction in question (the dark part that is 1" thick).

I DO NOT WANT TO PULL THIS TRANSMISSION AGAIN IF I DON'T HAVE TO.

So, here is what I'm thinking:
1) Drain oil from tranny & T case
2) Get shifters in neutral, remove them.
3) Remove crossmember/transmission bolts, and DS & T case bolts
4) Jack up transmission 1" just in front of the leaky area - where the drain plug is maybe.
5) Unbolt T case and pull it rearward to remove, set aside.
6) Unbolt rear section of Transmission, pull it rearward to remove, set aside
7) Lightly rubber mallet the metal plate holding the internals together until it breaks the seal, then CAREFULLY pull rearward while supporting the weight, and slide the whole thing rearward and remove.
8) clean everything, get old gasket crap off, clean again
9) Pray that the clutch didn't move
10) put THIN, EVEN layer of FIPG on the front transmission housing and slide gear assembly back in; do same for rear housing and bolt up within 10-15 minutes before FIPG sets.
11) replace gasket for T case (or use FIPG?) and replace/bolt on.
12) replace everything else

Can this be done while the transmission is still in the truck? Am I nuts?

Is there another way to fix this leak without removing the transmission or trying what I suggest?

JBurt

No. Just kidding. I think you're brave/crazy but I understand not wanting to drop the tranny. I wish I had some good advice but I can wish you luck.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

LOL, thanks anyway....needed the laugh

Now, someone help me please. Really!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

It will be much easier to just pull the transmission and transfer case.

I have found you will ruin the seal that goes in the rear of the transmission trying to get the transfer case out. Impossible to get the case back in with that seal in place.

Do it on a nice clean bench.

Your way has a very high frustration level besides what if while your in there you see something else to be addressed.

Good luck no matter how it plays out.:jessica:

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the reply Wyoming - dreading going through this again but if it's even more of a headache then maybe it needs to be done. At least I won't be a rookie this go round.

So what do you mean you can't get the transfer case back in? Even if you have the transmission out of the truck? I guess I don't follow...what do folks do when the install/repair gaskets between the T case and the tranny?

Here are some photos I stole from a rebuild thread on Pirate that show the output seal and the T case.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=913363

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Toyoya RED FIPG
Pull and fix right.

:wabbit2:

5runner

i know mine has 200 k on it and i have the same leak but not that bad but i would deff pull the trans way less frustrating!!! but i will be doing the same thing here soon!

82wingnut

I'm with them, FIPG the intermediate plate to housing mating surfaces. you can always wipe the excess worms from the tranny once it's tightened in place to dry.. in the car just sounds gruesome, it seems like more work to pull it all the way out but with it out everything is right there and you can see everything you are doing. Probably not a bad idea to replace the seals between trany and transfer case while your there, dependant upon your decision if the seal seems good or not. but what's a couple extra bucks if it means not having to dig back in there if it is damaged.

Moonfish

people do so many crazy cool things on here that I've never done. But this one I have.

This goes so much faster the second time you do it. Pulling the tranny maybe 1 1/2 hour. Pull the case off, I brake cleaner'd everything I could so the oil didn't drip right down into the area you want to fipg. If you can't get the area CLEAN, I'd say paper gasket but that is an amateur opinion.

I'd check to see if the oil is leaking out of the top. Check if either case is overfilled.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks guys for chiming in. After reading over this and researching more and thinking about it, it makes WAY more sense to pull it and fo it right.

I started prepping last night - got starter off, disconnected driveshafts, removed all but the upper bellhousing bolts, removed slave cylinder. Couldn't do much more with my wife' car in the garage too!

Next up will be to drain it, remove top 2 bolts (god I hate these....), and disconnect crossmember and pull that sucker out. I think I'll try to leave crossmember on the tranny this time when I pull it.

I also have the old transmission still, which will be valuable as I go through this. I removed the T case of the old one last night, and it was pretty simple: unbolt, and tug - boom it's off! I also removed the 9 bolts that hold the rear casing the gear housing....I whacked with a mallet a few times and was then able to wiggle it enough to pull it off. I removed the 12mm nut in the shifter seat before I pulled it off - is that necessary, and is it necessary to do anything with it when I'm mputting things back together? I put the bolt back in once removed, and tried gently snugging the parts back together and it seemed to work - but the selector rod seems like it has to fit a certain way into the gear housing when you put things back?

I didn't get much farther than that last night....to get the gear assembly out, do you simply lift it out of the forward housing - is it attached by anything other than the 9 bolts you've already removed at this point?

Trying to understand the process for re assembling it, since FIPG dries FAST, and I want to do some practice runs before the real deal.

Wabbit - is RED better for transmissions than black FIPG? You mentioned above so I'm curious.... Also, is the secret to make a very thin uniform layer or a thick one, and remove excess once pressed together? And lastly (for now!), do you put FIPG on the parts, reassemble and tighten nuts only finger tight....then let dry, and THEN torque them down.....or do it all at once? I assume you torque in star pattern like pressure plate and flywheel, too?

Wabbitt - recommend a gasket for T Case or also use ONLY FIPG?





RETURN OF THE MALLET:


The 12mm shift gate bolt I removed before separating rear of tranny:


The reason I'm doing this yet again:




Thanks guys - will keep you updated with pics and progress on this thread.

Phil

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

OK, first of all, I'd like to say thanks to Wabbitt for telling me to pull it and do it right. After getting this deep, I couldn't agree more. There is no way hell one could pull the TC, the rear Transmission case, and then the transmission assembly while still in the truck and then seal it up. You actually cannot separate the transmission assembly from the front case because it is connected to the front via 2 snap rings (which you access through the bearing retainer inside the bell housing...it's not physically possible anyway!).


That said, here's where I am:

Last weekend, my buddy came over and helped pull the tranny out - WAY easier with two. Wow. No comparison to when I did it myself the first time. We quickly took it apart and started cleaning gasket residue:



Left to Right:
- Front half of transmission case (which bolts to bellhousing)
- Transmission assembly
- Bellhousing
- Rear half of transmission case (bolts to TC adapter/TC)


Here's my dog, because she's awesome:



After about twenty dry runs of trying to put the front half casing+transmission assembly into the rear half transmission assembly, I gave up, took apart everything, and did it in reverse (bellhousing, front half case, transmission assembly together, facing bellhousing down, and then place the rear case half of the transmission on top of that. The problem was the damn shift fork assembly...you have to align it inside the three gear selector notches (which can move by the way!), then slowly set the front half of the transmission case on top, aligning the shift fork rod, and the drive shaft thing, plus a few other things....basically, I got a certain amount along, and then the damn shift fork fell out of alignment and/or moved the gear notches it was in and got stuck.....it was bad. So doing it the other way, bellhousing down with the transmission straight up, worked like a charm.

Here it is after cleaning the surfaces, RED FIPG (don't use black - it's not meant for gear oil!), and successfully dropping it on nice and snug:






This is my car that I sold last week after 6 years (sniff). I'm REALLY going to miss that thing.




This is my other car, a 1980 Datsun 280ZX, on the left. The car on the right belongs to my friend at work, who lives near me. It's a 1976 280Z that belonged to his dad. His 18 year old daughter drives it and HATES it. What a waste.




This is an AWESOME 4runner I saw around town yesterday. Notice the pickup lift gate and non-Toyota axles:



I fixed my neighbor's screen door from across the street today. She has a large dog that tore a hole in it so I got some of the "animal resistant heavy duty stuff" - we'll see how it pans out:



So I was going through some things, greasing some zerk fittings today, and noticed that the front of my main driveshaft..well, there was about 1/8" of play in the U Joint (holy hell!!)... This may explain the strange "chirping" noises I was getting when starting from a stop??? Time to replace my first U joint!

Here is the old one (notice anything....asymmetrical about the top part?):






So, here are the bearing caps from the OLD one. The two that don't have bearings anymore (on the right) - the sheared off nub above was rattling around in one of those - they were at opposite ends.




The gorgeous new one installed (this took me 5 minutes to tap it in with a mallet/scrap wood and apply the snap rings):



I propped up the newly sealed transmission horizontal and filled with gear oil...putting a clean shop rag below the leak area from before. I know it's not real world conditions, but if I screwed up bad, it will show in the morning:








This was SUPPOSED to be my spring project but this transmission thing kind of got in the way:



My autometer gauge for water has been reading zero for months. The gauge gets power but no reading. I took out the sender and it looks a little corroded:



See if this does the trick:




I also dropped the oil pan, cleaned it up, and re installed it with new FIPG.

I replaced the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate too.

Pretty much ready to go - just need to get the transmission back in the truck.

I also got a new front main seal and sleeve just in case. I'm really tired of oil in my driveway and want to nip it in the bud while I'm doing all this. I MISS MY TRUCK!!

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

I finally got everything back together tonight.

Transmission is in, U joint is replaced, new front seal and sleeve are in, oil pan is resealed/installed.

I took it out for a spin tonight and tried out 4WD in a nearby dirt lot and it shifts GREAT. Now we'll see if I fixed that leak after all since it's parked in my driveway.....

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Just an update - ZERO leaks and the tranny seems to work just fine

derockus

iTrader: (1)

rad! subd for sure. i got a leak coming off the very rear of the transfer case on my w56, slings oil up onto the body... i need to track it down so this is a killer ref. good job

TrikeKid

If it's off the very back, and slinging oil it's going to be the output seal. Easy fix and you won't have to go to the trouble Phillbert did (Excellent job by the way, nice to see some folks aren't too scared to learn by doing).

Output seal is a simple as unbolting the driveline, removing the flange and prying the seal out, and pounding a new one in. Be sure to make sure the surface where the seal rides isn't grooved though, or your leak will continue.

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for that, a little more searching and I came to that same conclusion. For anyone else that ends up here looking for a leak off the rear of the transfer case here is the solution: /rear-oil-seal-transfer-case-224390/index2.html#post51898126

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Still no leaks....but it's sitting in my garage with the head off the motor right now, so no chance to leak

I've heard the same on the output seal as well - MUCH easier fix than what I dealt with!

OathKeeper

My problem is on a w56 transmission and I have gear oil coming out of the shifter. The splash plate is installed and the leak isn't between the transmission and the shifter. Gear oil is coming out past the shifter pivot. How/why does this happen.

Jimkola

Overfilled?

OathKeeper

No, just had to actually add some. Fluid is below the fill hole by 1". I could understand if it was, like the p/s reservoir but even low still leaks.