3VZE oil pump, oil pan tricks and tips?
04-15-2012, 04:10 PM
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3VZE oil pump, oil pan tricks and tips?
3VZE ENGINE
My question:
Is there a way to finesse the oil pan out without dropping the front differential?
If I've got my heads off, and am down to just the block, will it be easier to pull the block out to get to the oil pan/oil pump rather than to drop the front diff?
Any TIPS you can think of?
Now for some useless information.....
My truck: 1995 4runner, 3vze engine with 340k Kilometers (200k miles), never rebuilt.
It's an Aussie car, left hand drive and everything!
I am currently in the process of a head gasket replacement... my first on a 3vze. My mechanic skills are dubious at best. I'm taking this truck to the middle of nowhere to bash it off road, so I want to tighten down everything I can.
I've been having oil pressure drop. I believe the oil pressure sending unit is relatively new, so I think I have pump problems. As I am dismantling the engine to do the head gaskets, I thought I'd change out the pump while it is apart.
So it seems I have to drop the front differential to remove the oil pan. I have to remove the oil pan to get to the oil pump. I would like to NOT have to drop the differential.
If it is easier to pull the block out, then I'll be kicking myself that I didn't pull the whole engine to being with - I've been bloody knuckling my way through pulling the heads.
-H
My question:
Is there a way to finesse the oil pan out without dropping the front differential?
If I've got my heads off, and am down to just the block, will it be easier to pull the block out to get to the oil pan/oil pump rather than to drop the front diff?
Any TIPS you can think of?
Now for some useless information.....
My truck: 1995 4runner, 3vze engine with 340k Kilometers (200k miles), never rebuilt.
It's an Aussie car, left hand drive and everything!
I am currently in the process of a head gasket replacement... my first on a 3vze. My mechanic skills are dubious at best. I'm taking this truck to the middle of nowhere to bash it off road, so I want to tighten down everything I can.
I've been having oil pressure drop. I believe the oil pressure sending unit is relatively new, so I think I have pump problems. As I am dismantling the engine to do the head gaskets, I thought I'd change out the pump while it is apart.
So it seems I have to drop the front differential to remove the oil pan. I have to remove the oil pan to get to the oil pump. I would like to NOT have to drop the differential.
If it is easier to pull the block out, then I'll be kicking myself that I didn't pull the whole engine to being with - I've been bloody knuckling my way through pulling the heads.
-H
04-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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i am a toyota newbie but have done many other brand engine pulls in my day. just last week i swapped the engine from two trucks. pulling the engines where not that bad. and lineing the engine back to the trans went very well in the 93 4runner. i have fought hours before on other brands.
both trucks had the top two bell houseing bolts missing. so that makes me think they are a pain to get at. laying underneath at back of trans use a very long extention with swivel on a impact has allways been the trick to get most top bell houseing bolts on many cars/trucks. i would belive there is no other way to get the oil pan out other than the removeing the diff or engine. may as well pull the engine. make for replaceing everything much easy than bending over the fenders.....
both trucks had the top two bell houseing bolts missing. so that makes me think they are a pain to get at. laying underneath at back of trans use a very long extention with swivel on a impact has allways been the trick to get most top bell houseing bolts on many cars/trucks. i would belive there is no other way to get the oil pan out other than the removeing the diff or engine. may as well pull the engine. make for replaceing everything much easy than bending over the fenders.....
04-26-2012, 04:27 PM
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I've got the heads off, and most of the attachments dangling by a thread...
I also don't have any sort of engine hoist (I know, I could rent/buy one) and space is limited.
So, I'm looking at dropping the front diff (1 cross member easily accessible and 2 mounting bolts).
That's what I'm doing today so I can remove the oil pump. This would be heaps worse if I didn't already have the timing belt off.
I SHOULD pull the block... but I'm hoping that dropping the diff is easier.
I also don't have any sort of engine hoist (I know, I could rent/buy one) and space is limited.
So, I'm looking at dropping the front diff (1 cross member easily accessible and 2 mounting bolts).
That's what I'm doing today so I can remove the oil pump. This would be heaps worse if I didn't already have the timing belt off.
I SHOULD pull the block... but I'm hoping that dropping the diff is easier.
05-10-2012, 03:18 PM
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pperry71 was right, I should have pulled out the engine.
I tried to drop the differential, but I couldn't get the torque on the bolts to do it... so I found a way to do it without dropping the differential or pulling the engine.
Here is a link to a manual, so ya'all have some images to look at:
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1990-1995...at/oilpump.pdf
If you have the tools and a place to work, drop the differential. It will save time. If you don't have the space/tools to pull the engine or drop the differential, this is what worked for me to remove the oil pump.
1. Clean the bottom of the car with de-greaser and drain the oil.
2. (for oil pump removal) Remove timing belt and radiator. If you are only going for the pan, you may not have to remove the belt, but you'll probably have to remove the radiator and fan shroud to have enough space.
2. Remove the lower engine-transmission bolts. This is to gain access to the rear oil pan bolts. Take off both cast iron engine-transmission mounts as this will help you gain access.
3. Remove the transmission protection plate. It should just slide right out once you remove both lower engine-trans mounts.
4. Unbolt the steering stabilizer (piston - one bolt) and one side of the steering mounting (3 bolts on frame). Don't undo the ball joints, it's a pain to get them apart. This will drop the steering steel components enough to get some space in the pan. It also allows the pan, oil pickup and oil baffle plate to slide out forward.
5 Unbolt the oil pan.
6. Using a puddy knife, gently dislodge the oil pan but NOT the oil baffle plate. This is to gain access to the oil pickup bolts. It's easier to get at it with the baffle plate stuck to the block.
7. For the oil pick, unbolt the 2 nuts from the oil pump at the front. Then using all of the finesse and patience that you have, unbolt the oil pickup from the block. One bolt is on the left side of the engine. The other in the middle... that one is a C_nt. It took me over an hour to get it off, so be patient.
Have a magnet on a stick handy (Dollar shop item) to pick up the dropped bolts. You will want this for reassembly, too. I suggest latex glove as you can swap them out to try an minimize the motor oil slip on fingers. This will also save your hand from the bruising and minor cuts that you'll get from the pan sharp edges. I've counted 32 slices, with gloves.
8. Once the oil pickup tube is dislodged (2 nuts, 2 bolts), break the seal on the oil pickup plate, gently. This should leave the baffle plate, oil pan and pickup tube able to be pulled forward and out.
If you are removing the oil pump, remove the crank gear. I found heating it will get it off. Mine was rusted on, and now is bashed to s_it. So it needs replacing. To get the key out, also bashed up, I used heat, pliers, a brass hammer... no luck. I finally tried wd-40 and nail cutting pliers and that did the trick.
When you unbolt the oil pump, make sure you have all the bolts. A couple are hard to find from above. Then pry on it, to break the seal if need be.
To Reinstall the oil pan, pickup and plate:
I haven't found a good way to do it. I used cork gaskets (they were in the head rebuilt kit, so why not!) as it took me so long to try to reattach the oil pickup bolts that the Form-In-Place gasket hardened. I ended up cutting one arm off of the oil pickup tube, too. Cutting the arm means that the oil pan and baffle plate can be installed separately. With the oil pickup stock, these 3 parts need to slide in and out as a group. Lining up the oil pickup to the baffle plate is a pain with only an inch of space to work.
If you use cork gaskets, you'll have to replace the oil pan bolts. So here is what I did:
1. Clean the old gasket off the oil pickup tube and oil pump. Cut a new one from a 6 pack cardboard if you forgot to get a new one.
2. Cut a V-shaped notch in the forward arm of the oil pickup tube mounting bracket. This speeds assembly as the arm can then be hooked into the bolt that is placed in the block. Cut off the center arm, not the one on the edge of the block.
3. place a new oil pickup tube gasket onto the oil pump.
4. Place baffle plate and baffle plate to block gasket into position and use the 2 nuts (block bolts) to hold it in place. If you want to use FIP gasket, place it on the baffle now.
3. Put the forward bolt for the oil pickup into the block half way.
4. Put oil pickup tube in the pan and slide both into position. If you are using FIP gasket, you may want to put it on the pan first... but you'll make a mess and probably have leaks. If you are using cork, you can place it now but expect to have to fish it out of the pan. It is just as easy to place after the oil pickup is bolted into position.
5. Put oil pickup tube onto oil pump, leave loose. The pan slides sideways to access the nuts.
6. Pull the oil pickup tube arm onto the bolt in the block. Tighten. Throw the other bolt into the tool box.
Go back and tighten the 2 oil pump nuts. With the 2 bolts on the oil pump and one arm, tight, the oil pickup tube will continue to function as normal.
7. If you used FIP gasket, you'll have to squeeze in some more for all the places on the oil pan it's shifted. If you are using cork, slide the gasket into place. To align the 4 pieces (2 gaskets, baffle and oil pan), use extra long bolt as a guide. This will speed up assembly. If you use long guide bolts, place them before you remove the nuts holding the baffle plate. This will speed up the process.
If you use cork, you'll need new bolts.The stock oil pan bolts will NOT work as they are too short. The oil pan nuts will work, but you have to bolt the whole thing together first to be able to get thread in the nut.
8. Put the transmission protection plate, engine mounts, etc. back together.
Hope that helps somebody. It took me about 3 days of assembly and dis-assembly to work out that procedure.
-Hbom
I tried to drop the differential, but I couldn't get the torque on the bolts to do it... so I found a way to do it without dropping the differential or pulling the engine.
Here is a link to a manual, so ya'all have some images to look at:
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1990-1995...at/oilpump.pdf
If you have the tools and a place to work, drop the differential. It will save time. If you don't have the space/tools to pull the engine or drop the differential, this is what worked for me to remove the oil pump.
1. Clean the bottom of the car with de-greaser and drain the oil.
2. (for oil pump removal) Remove timing belt and radiator. If you are only going for the pan, you may not have to remove the belt, but you'll probably have to remove the radiator and fan shroud to have enough space.
2. Remove the lower engine-transmission bolts. This is to gain access to the rear oil pan bolts. Take off both cast iron engine-transmission mounts as this will help you gain access.
3. Remove the transmission protection plate. It should just slide right out once you remove both lower engine-trans mounts.
4. Unbolt the steering stabilizer (piston - one bolt) and one side of the steering mounting (3 bolts on frame). Don't undo the ball joints, it's a pain to get them apart. This will drop the steering steel components enough to get some space in the pan. It also allows the pan, oil pickup and oil baffle plate to slide out forward.
5 Unbolt the oil pan.
6. Using a puddy knife, gently dislodge the oil pan but NOT the oil baffle plate. This is to gain access to the oil pickup bolts. It's easier to get at it with the baffle plate stuck to the block.
7. For the oil pick, unbolt the 2 nuts from the oil pump at the front. Then using all of the finesse and patience that you have, unbolt the oil pickup from the block. One bolt is on the left side of the engine. The other in the middle... that one is a C_nt. It took me over an hour to get it off, so be patient.
Have a magnet on a stick handy (Dollar shop item) to pick up the dropped bolts. You will want this for reassembly, too. I suggest latex glove as you can swap them out to try an minimize the motor oil slip on fingers. This will also save your hand from the bruising and minor cuts that you'll get from the pan sharp edges. I've counted 32 slices, with gloves.
8. Once the oil pickup tube is dislodged (2 nuts, 2 bolts), break the seal on the oil pickup plate, gently. This should leave the baffle plate, oil pan and pickup tube able to be pulled forward and out.
If you are removing the oil pump, remove the crank gear. I found heating it will get it off. Mine was rusted on, and now is bashed to s_it. So it needs replacing. To get the key out, also bashed up, I used heat, pliers, a brass hammer... no luck. I finally tried wd-40 and nail cutting pliers and that did the trick.
When you unbolt the oil pump, make sure you have all the bolts. A couple are hard to find from above. Then pry on it, to break the seal if need be.
To Reinstall the oil pan, pickup and plate:
I haven't found a good way to do it. I used cork gaskets (they were in the head rebuilt kit, so why not!) as it took me so long to try to reattach the oil pickup bolts that the Form-In-Place gasket hardened. I ended up cutting one arm off of the oil pickup tube, too. Cutting the arm means that the oil pan and baffle plate can be installed separately. With the oil pickup stock, these 3 parts need to slide in and out as a group. Lining up the oil pickup to the baffle plate is a pain with only an inch of space to work.
If you use cork gaskets, you'll have to replace the oil pan bolts. So here is what I did:
1. Clean the old gasket off the oil pickup tube and oil pump. Cut a new one from a 6 pack cardboard if you forgot to get a new one.
2. Cut a V-shaped notch in the forward arm of the oil pickup tube mounting bracket. This speeds assembly as the arm can then be hooked into the bolt that is placed in the block. Cut off the center arm, not the one on the edge of the block.
3. place a new oil pickup tube gasket onto the oil pump.
4. Place baffle plate and baffle plate to block gasket into position and use the 2 nuts (block bolts) to hold it in place. If you want to use FIP gasket, place it on the baffle now.
3. Put the forward bolt for the oil pickup into the block half way.
4. Put oil pickup tube in the pan and slide both into position. If you are using FIP gasket, you may want to put it on the pan first... but you'll make a mess and probably have leaks. If you are using cork, you can place it now but expect to have to fish it out of the pan. It is just as easy to place after the oil pickup is bolted into position.
5. Put oil pickup tube onto oil pump, leave loose. The pan slides sideways to access the nuts.
6. Pull the oil pickup tube arm onto the bolt in the block. Tighten. Throw the other bolt into the tool box.
Go back and tighten the 2 oil pump nuts. With the 2 bolts on the oil pump and one arm, tight, the oil pickup tube will continue to function as normal.
7. If you used FIP gasket, you'll have to squeeze in some more for all the places on the oil pan it's shifted. If you are using cork, slide the gasket into place. To align the 4 pieces (2 gaskets, baffle and oil pan), use extra long bolt as a guide. This will speed up assembly. If you use long guide bolts, place them before you remove the nuts holding the baffle plate. This will speed up the process.
If you use cork, you'll need new bolts.The stock oil pan bolts will NOT work as they are too short. The oil pan nuts will work, but you have to bolt the whole thing together first to be able to get thread in the nut.
8. Put the transmission protection plate, engine mounts, etc. back together.
Hope that helps somebody. It took me about 3 days of assembly and dis-assembly to work out that procedure.
-Hbom
Last edited by hbom; 05-10-2012 at 03:25 PM.
08-08-2014, 08:35 PM
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I know this thread is a bit old, but thanks for posting this, I am going to be attempting to follow your steps to drop my oil pan this weekend. Will try to take/post pictures of it if I can.
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