tc

Is this the kit Node has been working on, or some other design?

In case you missed it, we've been all around this tuning block before. Look in the 3rd gen forum for a thread like "3.4 Manifold Group Buy" with a bunch of pages. A lot of the research you're talking about has already been done and discussed ad nauseum.

phorensic

It is a CT26 off a JDM 3SGTE. I'm not sure if it has a ceramic turbine or not.

Pump, Walbro 190? FPR, the stockie doesn't hold up to a Walbro 190? Injectors, whatever I can find off a Toyota that has the same connector and is a larger size. I forget the website that showed the interchangeability and flow rates.

TC, it's not Node's kit. This is a completely custom creation we are doing.

phorensic

Cross post from my other thread:

I have had a long time problem with my 3vze. The spark plug on the cylinder just forward of #6 vibrates a ton and makes a very loud ticking noise. Recently it kind of sounds like an exhaust leak. Has anyone had this problem before? Cause of it?

Obviously, the repair is to change the spark plug, inspect old one, inspect threads in head, etc. Just wondering why it happened.
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Hahahahahahaha.. hahahahahaha...ha..ahem.

Well, the spark plug shot out of the frickin head this morning. Good thing it did, though, because I just realized the PO put in craptastic Bosch platinum-4's. Hopefully the head is not damaged, because there was a bit of aluminum on the threads of the plug. What a joke.

Hopefully I don't have to pull the head and timesert it.

suprathepeg

I searched for the manifold group buy and didn't find anything.

motoracer47

im with runethechamp on the horsepower torque thing. honestly i think you would get better performance for this application from the 7mgte ct26, but you already have the 3s ct26 so hopefully it will work. if it is ceramic(c20b) sell that thing on ebay or mr20c.com for good money and get a 7m ct26.(ive seen good condition c20b's go for 800 used! also, i would seriously consider changing the stock exhaust layout to get rid of the crossover, it will give you troubles with heat in cylinders 5&6, especially with a 3s twin scroll turbine housing, which is designed for fast spool up with a 2liter 4 cylinder. in fact, the 3s ct26 turbine side becomes a bottle neck on stock 3sgtes above about 5.5krpms, i think the flow from a 3liter will really become a problem. i would also consider ceramic coating the exhaust port, and the exhaust valves(but not the valve seat!!!!) these engines have the exhaust valve angled toward the intake (the largest fundemental design flaw of this engine, imho) causing the gasses to have to turn about 110 degrees to exit the head. short answer on this is that the harder it is for the gasses to exit the head, the more thermal energy they will dump into the head. add that with backpressure from a turbo with possibly too small of turbine housing for the application, and i see trouble brewing with the exhaust valves. please dont take this as not saying it will work, or dogging you or anything, i hope it does work, it would be awesome! im just trying to help and of corse, just my opinion. check out mr2oc.com more info on ct26 than youll care to know. brad

Weasy2k

the 3s charger is a bit smaller and the twin entry port will be choaking the engine but its a decent start for this engine. The supra housing would yeild ALOT better results.

You know whats funny is that I was designing cams for this engine...and then the engine died on me....now phorensic is doing a turbo system and look what happens to him....

the 3vz-e knows ! Says LEAVE ME ALONE ....stubborn block...

Motorracer also puts out ALOT of good points which i agree on...retarded timing will compound that issue! I will hopfully have a fix within a mth or so.

motoracer47

i know, i talk to much sometimes, lol but im working on that

i have a hard time not making a post a short story

btw, i totally agree on the retarding the timing will make it run hotter bit, proven on many a 3s(really any engine) still, lets with this, id love to see a turbo 3vze, im eventually going turbo, but it will be something possibly never done before. hint:it will use a ct26(ct27 actually) and no not a 7m,3vz,or 5vz

phorensic

I like your points about the more restrictive 3s ct26 turbine inlet. There are several reasons I went with the 3s ct26 over the 7m ct26. The first reason is that my truck is designed for off-road racing/prerunning. LOW rpm torque is king in off-road racing. I want this sucker to spool as fast as possible. I'm talking 2500RPM if possible. So twin scroll entry was the choice.

Look at my torque curve. I know the turbo is going to modify that. But redline is at 5500RPM. So lets compare theoretical air flows. We have the high end, the 7mgte, which has an excellent 24v head and 3L of displacement, and also a very high redline. This is going to equal a lot of flow. Then we have the 2L 3sgte. Pretty good heads and a very high redline. I would like to think the crappy heads on the 3vze and the 3L of displacement would be somewhere in between. Tack on a low redline and we have, well, very little flow.

If I dyno with a giant decrease in torque near redline, with moderate boost (~8psi). Then yeah, obviously the turbine section is choking the exhaust flow. At which point I would consider a 7m ct26 or this new ct27 setup I keep hearing about over at mr2oc.com.

And yeah, I order all the parts for the turbo and everything is set to go and it freakin shoots out a spark plug. Lol, IT KNOWS!

Toysrme

The stock pump for a pre vvti 1mz-fe & all 3vz-fe's is only 150lph & I, along with several others, personally believe that's a huge over-rating. Your 3vz-e would most likely be even smaller. A walbro 190 is big. 255's over rated in most applications. That is a boatload of flow. 190's are pleanty good enough through 400bhp as long as the fuel pressure isn't stupidly high.

I agree with the statement that the twin scroll ct26 is too small. The turibne housing is going to be a major bottleneck on that engine. If you're going to keep it, it would be best for you to cut&grind the twin scroll out; atleast port it out until next to nothing is left. Because the turbine won't be on the manifold & extremely close to the exhaust valves, I don't really think it'll make burning the #5&6 exhaust valves any bigger problem than the stock engine - but you'll be looking at lots of drop-off as the rpm rise.

One thing is for sure, he's going to have well over 100whp @ 3000rpm. 125-150whp would be easy also as he turns up the boost.

JackKnife

It isn't like a 3VZ hasn't been turbocharged before.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39571

Weasy2k

I have a egt gauge in my tacoma and i WATCH the egt go up at idle when I retard the timing...from stock to pulling 5 degrees = 200 hotter egt
sucks that people ignore that Lots of things dont like heat...EX O2 sensor

suprathepeg

Yea heat is a big issue. I remember reading a writeup a guy did on the TRD SC he thought that he was chasing down a lean condition I think that showed up as extreme heat coming out of the exhaust. There is no doubt that you can put a turbo on it what I think is the flaw in your plan is that you are saving the tuning portion of plan to the end. IIRC the guy on pirate who did it, did the tuning with the turbo and not a lot of boost. If you hit a lean spot it won't take long to at the very least melt a valve.

Out of curiosity, if you want low end torque why aren't you doing a junkyard SC? You'll get the low end torque and you could run some headers and huge exhaust to get that heat out fast. Depending on how my buildup works out I'm thinkin to try that.

suprathepeg

I guess all this unsolicited advice kinda sounds like preaching. Don't stop what you plan, just seems like you're trying to do it as cheep as possible. Save a few more pennies and "do it right".

motoracer47

thanks for that link, i didnt know it had been done yet. learn something new everyday im sure the 3s ct26 will work, and yea the 3vze heads dont flow as well (from a performance standpoint) at 3liters of swept volume per engine cylce compared to 2liters of swept volume per engine cycle, were still talking a 50% increase. the exact % probably wont be exactly 50%, but remember, exhaust flow will be a funtion off intake flow(and obviously many other factors) but we can "kinda" look at it as a closed loop system. the more intake flow, the more exhaust flow, the more exhaust flow(unless the wastegate is open) the more intake flow. but basically, a 3vze @ 6psi will flow around 50% more total system volume than a 3sgte at the same psi and at the same rpms. so you might run into the choking much sooner than you think, im going to guess around 3-3.5k rpms. again, it will for sure work, its just the efficieny will start to drastically drop, reversion will start being a problem as well. however, you will get monster spool from that turbo, im going to guess as low as 1800-2000rpm. the mr2 folks with strokers 2.2l usually find about a 500-700 or so rpm decrease in spool rpm. i know it sounds like im trying to say dont use it, im not, just pointing out what i think could be potential problems.

F0RSAKEN

Phorensic is right about the motor most likely being able to take the abuse. Have any of you guys read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell? He explains how engines are stressed by turbo charging, and its not a 1 to 1 thing. Upping the power by 50% does not add 50% extra stress to the engine internals. I dont remember exactly what he said, but he explains it very concisely, and says that most motors die due to improper tuning, not the added power.

Anyway, good luck with your project. I would pursue turbo charging the 3.0 in my t4r, but I already have one turbo car (FD3S), and dont want to deal with another. When I do my build, it will most likely be a 1uz-fe 'cause there is no replacement for displacement

phorensic

What do you mean by reversion?

Your prediction of spool by 2000RPM and choke at 3500RPM makes it sound like I'm going to have a diesel. Wheee! Like I said, I will dyno it again to see if it is being choked, and upgrade accordingly.

F0RSAKEN

I believe that exhaust reversion occurs when you have too much back pressure, causing the exhaust gas pulses to go back into the cylinder while the exhaust valve is still open. Dont quote me on that, but I THINK that is what it is, and I believe it could be a problem in your case due to too small of a turbo. But again, dont quote me on that....

phorensic

Wouldn't the wastegate take care of that? I mean, the turbo would be overspeeding if the wastegate was fully closed for an extended period of time. I would think the real problem would be the wastegate not being able to flow enough. I know this becomes a problem on Grand Nationals sometimes, and I've seen it happen on some Supras and DSM's. I believe it's called boost creep. It has been solved by running two external wastegates. Not sure I wanna get that involved in a wastegate setup, lol. I guess I would just try the 7m ct26.

phorensic

While we are BSing for a couple weeks before the install, I guess I should ask what the next logical size in turbo would be after a 7m ct26. The MR2 guys seem to love the GT28RS, aka The Disco Potato. But the damn thing is $1200 new. I would like to see some photos of the ATS ct27 also. Any other suggestions for a step up in turbine/compressor size? I don't think a full T4 is very realistic either.

Weasy2k

Talk to Node he is going to be putting together a 60-2 trim comp in a supra housing or something like that which should flow nicley. Hes going to be testing those out instead and they dont cost 1000+
THe GT28rs is also to small...GT30 your looking better.

If this was me tho i would get a 57 Trim T3/T4 and be done with it...cheap and dont need alot of psi to move air.

TRY what you got, i wouldnt think twice of it for sure! Giver! At least this is a starting point.