3vze diagnostic Code 24...shudder/miss/rough runner
01-29-2013, 01:40 PM
#21
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I just installed injectors in my truck recently as well, did you use a torque wrench? Not enough torque won't "crush" the washers and too much might damage the fuel bolts. The injectors should rotate right and left even after installing the fuel rails, if they didn't then something isn't right. Fuel rails could be on too tight. Also, you need to lubricate the o-rings with fuel (the injector guy said to use grease) before inserting them into the intake manifold and fuel rail. I found that using a cotton swab and lubricating both surfaces worked better since mine were a bit snug. Also, I found that for the thicker o-rings on the pindle cap, it was easier to insert them into the intake manifold first, then place the injector inside of it. I almost ruined one trying to do it the other way around.Misread you at first. But yes, I tightened the fuel rails and fuel pipes (with new copper crush washers) to FSM torque specs. The injectors were also "carefully" installed, trying not to damage the orings and making sure not to get them in there cockeyed. I also had trouble with one or two of those thicker orings near the pintle cap. For everyone else reading this, be very careful not to break the connector wires. They are very brittle. I didn't break any wires, but 3 of the retainer "clips" -- for lack of a better word -- broke off. Seems like the plugs themselves are holding fine though without those
About the Dashpot: It's not that vital. It's for reducing emissions so if your's isn't to spec (like everyone else who has a 3VZ-E) don't sweat it. Mine had always been broken and I just took it off, ran fine except for a little bit of a "jerk" when you let off the accelator. With my "new" one on it's smoother. Yours is busted, you're missing the air filter and cap. Try and take one off at a junkyard (Camry and Corollas use the same kind) if you can. If the spring mechanism doesn't work at all, don't get it. If it does, you can adjust the screw on the throttle body to increase/decrease the gap. This is low-priority though.I just took the dashpot cap off (and filter) for the photo. It has a small crack at the edge -- seems like everything made of plastic or rubber under the hood has become brittle after 24 years. I think the spring is fine, but that rubber/plastic boot surrounding it is so hard and brittle that it won't really allow the mechanism to work like it should. I'll try to find one at my local junkyard one of these days.
About Cold Start Injector: Unless you live where it snows or reaches sub-freezing temps regularly, this would not be your issue. I asked the guy who did my injectors about the CSI and he said not to bother and just clean in gasoline to remove the buildup if I wanted (I did). It only runs for 15-30 seconds on cold mornings where I am at (lowest temp I remember was 28 degrees). So if witchhunter says there's no leaks through your injector, it's not your issue. Once again though, be sure the fuel line and nuts to the air chamber are tightened to spec.Yeah, it doesn't get that cold here, but I just want it to work, ya know?
Removing the EFI fuse would make it run better temporarily because code 24 and code 25 (rich/lean error codes) are on a 2-fault system. The first time it happens it records it in the ECU and the second time throws the CEL. It will never go away, trust me on that one. Just fixed a code 25 after 4 months of resetting the EFI fuse several times a week since I was sick of looking at it.
About the Dashpot: It's not that vital. It's for reducing emissions so if your's isn't to spec (like everyone else who has a 3VZ-E) don't sweat it. Mine had always been broken and I just took it off, ran fine except for a little bit of a "jerk" when you let off the accelator. With my "new" one on it's smoother. Yours is busted, you're missing the air filter and cap. Try and take one off at a junkyard (Camry and Corollas use the same kind) if you can. If the spring mechanism doesn't work at all, don't get it. If it does, you can adjust the screw on the throttle body to increase/decrease the gap. This is low-priority though.I just took the dashpot cap off (and filter) for the photo. It has a small crack at the edge -- seems like everything made of plastic or rubber under the hood has become brittle after 24 years. I think the spring is fine, but that rubber/plastic boot surrounding it is so hard and brittle that it won't really allow the mechanism to work like it should. I'll try to find one at my local junkyard one of these days.
About Cold Start Injector: Unless you live where it snows or reaches sub-freezing temps regularly, this would not be your issue. I asked the guy who did my injectors about the CSI and he said not to bother and just clean in gasoline to remove the buildup if I wanted (I did). It only runs for 15-30 seconds on cold mornings where I am at (lowest temp I remember was 28 degrees). So if witchhunter says there's no leaks through your injector, it's not your issue. Once again though, be sure the fuel line and nuts to the air chamber are tightened to spec.Yeah, it doesn't get that cold here, but I just want it to work, ya know?
Removing the EFI fuse would make it run better temporarily because code 24 and code 25 (rich/lean error codes) are on a 2-fault system. The first time it happens it records it in the ECU and the second time throws the CEL. It will never go away, trust me on that one. Just fixed a code 25 after 4 months of resetting the EFI fuse several times a week since I was sick of looking at it.
01-29-2013, 02:26 PM
#22
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Success...
Okay, this issue has finally been resolved. Turns out I had 3 bad injectors. #2 was completely inop; numbers 1 and 6 were leaking, with 6 constantly dripping fuel. Those injectors were replaced, and now she runs well.
As for the cause of the bad injectors, all I can say is maybe I screwed up when I reinstalled them. They were working fine when they left witchhunter. Once I got my paws on them I managed to damage them somehow, which didn't manifest itself until after I had it all buttoned up and drove for 50 miles. Well, I'll take that back. #2 probably wasn't ever working, I just didn't know it.
In hindsight, I should've considered just replacing all 6 injectors instead of having them cleaned and flowtested. It wouldn't have cost much more, and they were over 20 years old after all. That's just me; I'm sure many of you would think it's ridiculous to replace what might be a perfectly good injector. But just consider this for a second: shipping them to Witchhunter cost $21/per plus shipping. New injectors were only about $60/ea. And hey, they're over 20 years old. Again, that's hindsight after spending the last two months trying to get this thing running properly.
Also, I could've save myself alot of time by trying the "pull the spark plug wire" test. I quickly would've discovered that no fuel was getting to the #2 plug had I done this simple test. There are many posts on here about this if you're curious -- but try not to shock yourself.
On the bright side, I've learned a heck of alot about the 3vze, and that's priceless, right?
And I also learned there's more money to be spent, on the dashpot, brake booster vac hose, and AS reed valve.
All in all, I'd rather not go through this again...
...and maybe I'll get lucky and she'll run like a top for the rest of her days 
Thanks to all who gave input, and to those whose old posts helped me...there are far too many to remember or name, but I can't close this thread without thanking sb5walker for the "massive" sticky that we've all read or definitely should read
And another thanks to Gary at Toyota of Newnan for excellent prices on genuine Toyota parts. 
As for the cause of the bad injectors, all I can say is maybe I screwed up when I reinstalled them. They were working fine when they left witchhunter. Once I got my paws on them I managed to damage them somehow, which didn't manifest itself until after I had it all buttoned up and drove for 50 miles. Well, I'll take that back. #2 probably wasn't ever working, I just didn't know it.
In hindsight, I should've considered just replacing all 6 injectors instead of having them cleaned and flowtested. It wouldn't have cost much more, and they were over 20 years old after all. That's just me; I'm sure many of you would think it's ridiculous to replace what might be a perfectly good injector. But just consider this for a second: shipping them to Witchhunter cost $21/per plus shipping. New injectors were only about $60/ea. And hey, they're over 20 years old. Again, that's hindsight after spending the last two months trying to get this thing running properly.
Also, I could've save myself alot of time by trying the "pull the spark plug wire" test. I quickly would've discovered that no fuel was getting to the #2 plug had I done this simple test. There are many posts on here about this if you're curious -- but try not to shock yourself.
On the bright side, I've learned a heck of alot about the 3vze, and that's priceless, right?
And I also learned there's more money to be spent, on the dashpot, brake booster vac hose, and AS reed valve.
All in all, I'd rather not go through this again...
...and maybe I'll get lucky and she'll run like a top for the rest of her days Thanks to all who gave input, and to those whose old posts helped me...there are far too many to remember or name, but I can't close this thread without thanking sb5walker for the "massive" sticky that we've all read or definitely should read
And another thanks to Gary at Toyota of Newnan for excellent prices on genuine Toyota parts.
01-29-2013, 04:10 PM
#24
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Ive posted my problem at length on the "other" forum, but want to pitch it to y'all to get more opinions. Quick & dirty, I removed/replaced injectors to send to Witchhunter (leaky). Replaced a lot of other stuff too (see link). Ran fine before I tore it down. Didn't check codes before hand
, but now getting a code 24 when I jump the diagnostic ports. Click the link for my saga:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/80...ml#post4031813
I've tried almost all I can think of, other than swapping the ECU. Any tips, advice, been-there-done-that's etc. are appreciated.
, but now getting a code 24 when I jump the diagnostic ports. Click the link for my saga:http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/80...ml#post4031813
I've tried almost all I can think of, other than swapping the ECU. Any tips, advice, been-there-done-that's etc. are appreciated.
01-29-2013, 04:30 PM
#25
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I tore it down because at least two of the injectors were leaking. It was running well, in spite of the leaking injectors. Fuel economy sucked, and call me crazy I just couldn't get over that fuel smell nor the thought of going out with a blaze of glory so I decided to fix it myself.
EDIT: I could've sworn I mentioned the leaky injectors in my original post. I'll have to look...but yeah, that's why I tore it down, sent the injectors to Witchhunter, got them back and thought all was well. Followed by chasing down the rabbit hole for awhile before the "cleaned" injectors failed, leading me to the ultimate source of the problem.
EDIT: I could've sworn I mentioned the leaky injectors in my original post. I'll have to look...but yeah, that's why I tore it down, sent the injectors to Witchhunter, got them back and thought all was well. Followed by chasing down the rabbit hole for awhile before the "cleaned" injectors failed, leading me to the ultimate source of the problem.
Last edited by Herkdriver; 01-29-2013 at 04:35 PM.
01-29-2013, 04:36 PM
#26
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Not picking on you but the injector thing reminds me of a good freind of mine. His last name is Hoglan. We came up with a new word just for him.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=Hoglanized
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=Hoglanized
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