Chickenman

Different results for different people. I like my weber. Some other people hate them.

magentawave

But there has to be a reason why you like a Weber carb over the factory carb, right? Is it because they offer more power? Better MPG? More reliable? Easier to work on? Which is it?

Stu Pidasso

I think the Weber is a bit more simplistic to work on. It also has a much cleaner appearence under the hood. The Weber is a high performance part so you can expect the normal high performance improvements. Gas mileage is often determined by the nut in front of the steering wheel. If you are the kind of guy that likes to smash the loud pedal to the floor then expect less economy than someone who shifts at the factory recommended shift points and lets the engine idle down between shifts. The 22r/re engine is no ultra high performance machine. It is not a gas sipping hybrid, it is not an octane thirsty big block. The 22 series Toyota engines are simplistic and a durable. You will be pleased with the Weber. Google search some of this info.

toyquad

rebuildin a motor isnt difficult. just take your time and use the manuals. that is what they are here for.

for the 22r to 22re conversion. its time consuming, but not difficult if you get everything from 1 running donor vehicle. this includes fuel tank, fuel lines, everything under the hood, and dash wiring.


as stated above 22r and 22re's are basically the same engine. only difference is in the date of production. 79-84 are one group and 85-95 is the other. blocks , heads, t chain and t chain covers will not swap between 79-84 and 85-95. example, you cant put a 85 head on a 84 block.

a 83-84 head will except a efi intake. 79-82 heads will as well but you need to drill and tap 2 extra holes.

if your engine is original it will except a 22re intake.
if you plan on rebuildng your 22r, i would look for a oil pump gear drive from a 79-82 22r. those years had double row timming chain and steel guides. they are far superior to the 84 and newer signle row t chains. iirc all you need is the oil pump drive, and then order a t chain kit for a 82 22r.

frankryzzo

I recently installed a Weber on my 22R and can say it does simplify the setup a bit, it is straightforward to tune and work on, and I'm getting around 17mpg on 33's with 4:88 gears. I'm not convinced I have the tuning quite right so I'm hoping with a little more fiddling around I might squeek another mpg or two out of it. The previous carb was some kind of knockoff that wasn't jetted or tuned properly and was getting less than 10mpg. I can also confirm that if the carb isn't right it won't like angles as someone mentioned above. I think if the carb is clean and the floats are working correctly it won't be as much of an issue though. I just got back from Rausch Creek after installing the new setup and had no issues being way off camber or going up and down steep inclines. The old carb would stall out dead every time going down a steep hill. I'll be watching this thread to see what info you scrounge up as I'm considering some of the same things... ie: swapping to fuel injection or rebuilding the engine. Best of luck with yoour project and keep us updated on what you find.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Just going thru your thread. If you are not in any hurry, and can afford the time and funds, think you could enjoy building your own motor. Superbleeder and 92Toy have alot of great information and there are others.

One thing I did notice that isnt mentioned is the 84 block is actually alot different then what you may think. I would suggest getting an 85 block or newer. I was wanting to use an 84 block for my 85 and convert it to EFI. I didnt see it as a possiblity, wondering if an 84 intake is different somehow, I dont know on that one. If you are going to stay carburated, you could use an 84 block.

Timing covers are not interchangeable between 84 and 85. In one of my threads, I show there is a lock washers thickness in the difference in sizes. I even discovered some differences in timing cover bolts. Water pumps,timing chain, are interchangeable though. Reason I mention this the entire motors are the same height, but using 12 inches just for numbers and explantion and not factual, an 84 for example would have from what I know of, a 7 inch block and a 5 inch head where as an 6 inch block and 6 inch head so this is why some parts do interchange.

The 84 and older blocks do not have a place for the Knock Sensor, the intake will not bolt up from an 85 and newer to an 84 and older. I show that in one of my threads as well. Just dont remember which one. I do know of the 20/22r hybrid but dont fully understand it and not sure how to go about that. Old style heads have round ports and the new style have a pear shaped exhaust ports are just a few things that I can recall right off.

To convert the wiring, I would suggest having a complete donor truck with entire harness, computer,gas tank, and motor. Since I read you have an 84 motor, I am going to suggest using 85-88 2WD truck. You didnt mention specifics on your motor home.

As far as wiring, depending on your ability and I have some videos and post on what is needed to convert from 22r to 22re. I would remove both front fenders and most of the dash will need to come out. Nothing really hard, in my opinion, but will take some time. Not trying to change your mind, just trying to give you more info that you might want to know.

If you decide you want to go thru with converting, I will add some info as it will take a little bit to look it up.

magentawave

Okay I bought the motorhome yesterday. It is a 1984 Toyota Sunrader motorhome with 4 speed manual with 57,000 original miles. The motorhome was abandoned at the side of the road and then sold at a lien sale. The previous owner put it in storage where it sat for the last three years. She, the previous owner, paid a tweaker mechanic to pull out the original non-running 22R and replace it with an engine with lower miles. He dropped in the "new" engine but it supposedly didn't fit so then he disappeared (ya know tweakers). The guy at the storage yard said the "new" engine is a 22RE and that the oil pan on the 22RE is different than the 22R oil pan and that was the reason it wouldn't fit. He said to replace the existing 22RE oil pan with a 22R oil pan and it will fit perfectly. I thought ALL 22RE's had fuel injection and clearly say "22RE" on them but the engine in the photos below doesn't say "22RE" and it has a carburator instead of fuel injection. Apparently the engine in the photos is sitting in place and NOT bolted down.

My questions please...

1) Were ALL 22RE's equipped with fuel injection?

2) Is that a 22R or a 22RE in the photos below?

3) If its a 22R, then can anyone tell me why it wouldn't fit? (Again, the problem could have been that the mechanic was a tweaker.)

4) Based on the jumbled mess seen in the photos below with vacuum tubes cut off and stuff missing, how difficult would it be for a good mechanic to get this engine installed correctly and running great?

Thanks again.

Steve

magentawave

And here are two more photos. Sorry for the blurry one.

toyquad

the easist way to tell what "year" grouping the engine belongs to is by the exhuast ports.

84 and older they are round ( what your old motor should have)
85 and newer they are a pear shape.

85-95 engines are all identical. the only difference is what fuel system the factory decided to put in the vehicle. i've seen carb'd engines in a 91 truck

despite what terrys87 may tell you. a efi intake will bolt up to a 83-84 head. proof is simply looking at a 83 -84 celica as they came with fuel injection. Or look at how your carb'd intake bolts to your head, you will notice a couple holes that nothing mounts to, the efi intake uses these extra holes.

he is correct there isnt a spot to bolt the knock sensor to, but a simple search will show its easy to modify (aka drill and tap a hole) the block to attach one.


now to your oil pan problem. there are a few different styles, the 4wd and 2wd pans are different. your "new" engine probably has a 4wd oil pan on it.
you will need to swap the oil pan and pick up tube from your old motor onto your new one


in summary and to answer your questions.

1)yes, the 22re and 22rec ( cali emissions) are fuel injected
2) that is a 22r, its carb'd. look at the exh. ports and that will tell you what "year grouping" the engine belongs to. looking at your exh manifold gasket, i would save its a 84 or older head. but pull the gasket off and check the shape of the ports. wouldnt be the first time someone put the wrong gasket in
3)most likely the oil pan. swap the old onto the new
4)to hook it all up properly, time consuming but not to difficult. the engine will run just fine, even better with 90% of that stuff removed and capped

ThatGuy1295

Ya the E means injected


Dont know.

rokblok

iTrader: (1)

I can only guess it didn't fit due to motor mounts being different between the vehicle it came out of versus your motor home? Maybe just located differently due to engine mounted brackets.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

The "E" would mean it was fuel injected. There is a difference between oil pans as was mentioned. Yours is 22r. The 4 wheel drives have a deeper sump pan. You will need a 2 wheel drive pan and pickup tube. Not sure what pan you have on as it is not showing.

Some other variables will be fuel tanks and having a complete truck would solve alot of issues as there are differnent injectors. 88 is a one year only.

Here is what I ran into trying to turn an 84 into fuel injection using an 86 fuel injected intake. I know that it may be possible to have a Knock Sensor tap done at a machine shop. If it could be done, I would like to know as this is a great running 22R as far as the EFI intake swap. The newer heads I believe were made to be interchangeable from carb to EFI.


When I tried to convert....copied from one of my builds. More info on post #882 >>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...9/index36.html
Here is a intake manifold that I used for my 86 Runner and something wasnt right on it and had to use another(waterline was missing). The first stud up by the fuel pump lines up but nearly all of the rest dont as you get further to the back of the motor. Seems like I recall some of the bolt holes werent even there. That might could of been done at a machine shop but I didnt feel the cost would be worth it.




Some of the differences.
I tried to use a early model 22r and they wont interchange. Thought I would put some info up to help others identify what they may have.

84 and older. 22r has no dimples/circles and the number "2" on it. There is a height difference about the size of a lockwasher.


22re has "6k" and dimples/circles. 85 and up.


Here is what I am talking about on the 1/8th inch height. I used a lockwasher to help show how much of a difference. This cover is an early 22r. Seems like the oil pump bolts were to short. Hope this will save some one some trouble. It is an early model 22r timing cover on a newer 22re block.

magentawave

The motorhome is in California. Can I assume that California with all of its smog stuff would require that all those hoses NOT be removed and capped? Ultimately I'm going to register and license it in South Dakota and I don't think they do smog checks in South Dakota. Do you think a "good" mechanic would know which 90% of those hoses could be removed and capped?

Thanks again.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Someone who knows the 22r motors could have it up and running in a quick amount of time. Registering in South Dakota probably wouldnt be a problem, but in California, when I lived there, it would have to have all of the lines on right to pass the sniff test.

I would rather the smog equipment be removed and some hoses capped as well for a cleaner running motor in the long run. That EGR makes a huge mess inside the motor.

A good mechanic should be able to connect all of the hoses back up.
1984Toyota22RE.jpg

1984Toyota22RECal...

1984Toyota22REFed...

toyquad

I dont know why it didnt work for you terry, ( i can see the difference, just not sure why there is one)

6 or 7 years ago, I helped a buddy fuel inject his 1984 toyota. I dont have any pics, but there werent any problems installing the efi intake.

I did find some pics from the web that show a efi intake on a 1984 motor. you can tell by the round exhuast ports.
http://www.celica-gts.com/forums/ind...?topic=21220.0

also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Celica
read down to where is says 1983-84 were 22re's.

I also like to do things backwards sometimes, i have a 1988 22re engine with a 84 carb'd intake on it in my 85 4 runner.

i also have a spare 22r and 22re intake in my garage, when i feel like getting dirty i will compare the 2

magentawave

Terry - I appreciate you taking the time to post those images, etc.

Since those drawings are for the 22RE, do you have similar images showing what to connect for the 22R engines in California so they pass smog? And an image showing what to connect and what can be capped off for NON-California 22R's?

Thanks again.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello magentawave...I will see what I can find, I dont have any pics of one now, but I do have an 85 FSM and will see if has any good pics but it could be way different. Toyota did change quite a few things over the years. Some may not be noticed at first. I will see what I can find.

It has been nearly 18 years since I had to deal with Californias smog checks, so you will need it to pass visual. I did a 68 Mustang and had the motor passing with flying colors but removed all of the non functioning emissions equipment and they failed me. They made me put it all back on even though it was not working. Then I passed and proceeded to remove it again after getting home.

I dont have much experience in desmogging a 22r but here is a thread that might get you in the right directon.>>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f114...ly-22r-205845/

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello toyquad...lol... seems like I have alot of the same parts as you. Just to cold to get out in the shop. We are in the teens with the temperture.

Seems you have a some Celica experience behind you. I had an 83 Celica 22r motor and tranny. Dont know if you ever tore down a Celica motor and seen the pistons. They are more dome top. Seems to me that would raise compression and would be a good thing in my mind. Just dont know why they didnt carry it to the trucks unless it has more to do with torque over horsepower.

I am actually working on a 84 22r truck motor for my 85 extra cab and if I could convert it to EFI, that would make my life alot easier, any info you got I would be intrested in. I do have an 87 22re I am currently planning to build for it but it would be quicker to use the 84.

I havent seen a 84 22re, but apparently they did make them, just am curious if maybe the fuel injection intake is different and when Toyota went to 85 they made several other changes as well. I dont know for sure. Thanks.

toyquad

Hey Terry. I hear ya on being cold out, although it is just below freezing here lol.

I had a quick look at the intakes, other then a couple mounting holes in different spots, the ports seemed to line up. Most of the mounting holes did as well. I thought i had a spare intake gasket around, but I was unable to find it. I was going to use that to compare the 2.

I dont have much celica expirience other then i was once given a motor out of a 84 celica and it was a 22re. This was back when i was new to toyota's and was gonna put the head on my 22re in my 87 pick up until i found some differences lol. I ended up giving the motor to a buddy who used it as a "22r" in his 82 pick up.

I remember the pistons being domed, but so were the ones in my 84 pick up with a 22r. It was a few years after i pulled the celica 22re apart, so i didnt notice if the pistons were more/ less domed .

As for info for you, I have a 85 22re with a carb'd intake on it from my old 84 22r. I also had a 84 22re engine(celica). I have also seen that "22re" with a carb'd intake on it.

Everything i have even heard or seen from people who have been working on toyota's longer then me have said you can put a 22re intake on a 83-84 head with no modifications.

the exh manifolds will also swap over, depending if you want/need the stock location for the 02 sensor. There is 1 other "minor" differencr in exh manifolds. Between cylinders 2 and 3, some have 1 mounting stud, others have 2. in the past to cure this problem i just removed the stud and never had a problem. Needed to do this to use my header

I didnt mention the egr differences cause everything i have owned I have blocked them off and removed the egr system lol

magentawave

Do you guys know about how much the parts cost to convert a 22R to a 22RE? I assume you would get them at a junkyard, right?

And what is the difference in MPG between a 4 spd 22R and a 4 spd 22RE?

Thanks!