taumsauk

I acquired an 85 Pickup today from my cousin who simply no longer wanted it. (He has another 85 pickup w/ a 22r that he is wanting to build up). Simply stated, he is one of the most generous people I know.

Truck is a bit of an albatross with a carbureted 4.1 V6 out of a Buick and a GM tranny (don't have specifics on this yet). The original engine swap was done by the guy who had it before him. Since my cuz purchased it a year ago, it has only been used once - at the Buchanan Mud Fest (near St. Louis) this past September. They ran it hard for a few hours before it starting running hot, despite the electric fan, so they put it back on the trailer. While is was running, the truck generally performed well (I was told). The axles and transfer case appear to be original.

So without any further adieu, lets get to the pics...

(the 4Runner is my DD, btw)











The Buick 4.1...



We know for sure that the engine needs new crankshaft and connecting rods based on the (exploratory) work done to get it running for Buchanan's. The quote I have for these parts is over $500. The engine will be pulled and rebuilt while I'm at it. With this type of investment necessary, should I scrap the current 4.1 and pick up a 3.8 or another 4.1 that will bolt up in place of this one? I figure that someone has already been through the headaches of the engine swap (motor mounts, electrical, tranny, etc, etc, etc.) so I should stick with this platform of the GM 3.8/4.1. Do you agree?

What would you recommend doing first (after the engine is rebuilt)? I don't know if it has a locker yet, I'd probably weld the rear-end anyway and install a factory e-locker in front. I'll also replace the front bumper, install a winch, install a rear hitch and sliders (at least). May even remove the bed (although it is in great shape) and do something a little more trail appropriate. Possibly exoskeleton?

I'd appreciate any opinions, advice, recommendations, or anything else that you might have to mention based on the pics.

It is currently sitting down at the farm and its like 5 degrees outside so its gonna stay put 'til it warms up a little, but I can't wait to get it home and start pulling it apart for a thorough inspection and cleaning.

taumsauk

Also, forgot to mention that this truck doesn't have a title. The guy who owned the truck before my cousin claimed to have never received the title from the original owner and didn't care because he was going to make it into strictly a trail use vehicle. I worry about this...

I would feel better about the truck if it had a title. What are my options? Is there anyway to look up the original owner based on VIN? I'd like to make a sincere effort to try and resolve this matter. I don't necessarily care to license the truck for road use, but just in case.

If anyone has any advise on this I would appreciate it.

Thanks soo much!!

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

You got lots of work in front of you. I'd pull that GM POS out of there and put a 22RE or 3.4 in there. I hate bastardized Toyotas.

After getting it running, you need to clean up the rust underneath before the truck falls apart.

Just apply for a lost title at the DMV.

NicCantDecide

While I'd usually agree with putting a toyota engine back in there, its gonna be a lot of money compared to finding another 4.1 or other domestic that bolts up to the mounts you already have.

But if you plan on tearing it apart and fixing that rust bucket of a frame, then why not go the whole way and put a toyota engine back in? If you want to run it in mud you can't go wrong with a 1UZ or a 3.4 supercharged. But that's just me. Its entirely up to you.

trbizwiz

Check craigs list, and see if you can get a cheap 22re or 22r that needs work. Preferrably one with the 5speed and transfer case. IF you could pick one up for 3 to 500 and invest a couple hundred into an overhaul, you will likely be far happier than with the buick combo you have now. plus pleanty of tech help here. its doubtful anyone here will be much help with your current setup. The 3.4 would be the most fun, but cost prohibitive for an off road only vehicle, prolly 3 to 4 grand.

taumsauk

It seems like you guys recommend swapping a toyota motor and trans back in it if possible and ditching the buick. Well, a quick search on craigslist yielded the following:
"89 toyota truck 5 speed,(2 wheel drive)156,000 miles,$100.00
motor and trans ran good when pulled,been sitting out average of 6 months under cover,selling "as is" guaranteed to run".

I've already emailed the poster. I'll let you know what I find out.

A search for another 3.8 or 4.1 engine wasn't as successful. There were several hits for RWD cars, but no one wanting to part out just the engine. I remember reading another thread stating that the GM 3.8/4.1 engines set up for FWD wont work. Is this true?

THANK YOU FOR THE ADVICE!! Its great to know you guys are here!

Johannes

I had a 4.1 Buick in my CJ5 and wow, that thing wouldn't die. After I got it, it pretty much ran on no oil for a week, ran in the sand, mud, and freezing weather extremely well. It was a great engine, but yeah, go back to the 22RE and transmission. I loved the Jeep and engine, but I never really trusted it like I do the 22RE.

taumsauk

Well, the craigslist 22re engine and tranny I mentioned above didn't pan out - already sold. I'll keep looking and keep you guys posted on what I do. I found another 85 2x4 parts truck with a "good running" engine for $950, but thats more than I would want to spend.

Thanks for the input!! (and have a Merry Christmas!)

Johannes

With the way prices on everything are so crazy high in some places, that might be a steal, all the parts on that could be worth thousands besides the 22RE which lots of people on here will tell you, running good, is worth far more than $950 no matter the mileage.

oldschool4runner

I've done a Buick swap in an 81 pick-up. Loved it! It would blow the doors off any Toyota powered pick-up, street, sand or mud! The torque of the Buick is great and combined with the GM 350 crawling is incredible. The only reason I ever sold it was because I wanted a new truck (85 SR5)
Plus I get tired of paying too much for Toyota parts. $114 for a vacuum switch come on. I have a Buick sitting in my garage right now that I'm going to put in my 4runner. I not a purist by any means, I choose the best parts for my needs (really desires). The 22re in my 4runner is great runs like a top, but can't maintain 65 on the freeway. If you decide to get rid of the Buick keep in mind that the 350 to Toyota adapter plate is worth a little bit of money.

apalmer1

ive seen a few trucks around here with 3.8's and 4.1's in them and i did a lot of work on a few fuel injected 3.8's when i was in college i personally dont like them at all. The 4.1 seems to be a much more torquey and reliable motor (i have a friend with one in an old CJ7 and it does well) but personaly i would ditch the buick route and go for a chevy 4.3L vortec. around here 4.3's are cheap and easy to find parts for, not to mention a 4.3 would likely use the same motor mounts you already have, and will bolt up to the tranny thats already in there. even if you get a Z code (TBI) 4.3L it will still produce around 160hp and plenty of torque. a newer MPI 4.3 is close to 200hp and has gobs and gobs of torque. not to mention parts for those motors are cheap and easy because they are the same motor as as 350sbc minus two cylinders.

if your concearned with cost of maintanance and operation and looking for a less complicated swap i think thats your best option, just my .02

taumsauk

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the buick engine! When you are ready to dispose of the 22re, I'd like first dibs! Out of curiosity, how much would you be willing to sell it for?

TrikeKid

I wouldn't bother going to the 22R. If you're going to swap something, it should be an upgrade. If you don't want the Buick, I'd go to a 4.3 like apalmer mentioned, or even a small block. If money was no object, my truck would be running a RamJet 350/700r4.

oldschool4runner

I'd like to get about $600 for the 22re. I don't know the full history of the engine, the guy I bought the 4runner from just bought it to turn it. I do know that it was rebuilt. The chassis is covered in oil and the engine doesn't leak a drop of oil now. It runs pretty strong but it currently attached to a POS auto trans.

In reply to the Chevy 4.3 bolting up to your existing trans, that may not 100% true. The Buick trans pattern is different than the Chevy. But a TH350 for a Chevy it pretty cheap. The 4.3 will bolt up with a bit more work. Downey Off-road is the best source for info on engine conversations.

As for the overheating a four core radiator is required to keep any V-6 conversation. I have a radiator from Downey set-up for the Buick V-6.

Good luck on whatever you decide to use.

Johannes

Hmm...I've never had trouble keeping my speed above 70 with a 22RE. On my '95 I got a ticket going 75 to prove it. In the '85 I have now, with the gears set up as they are, I can get up to 90 no sweat, and it doesn't even tick yet.

taumsauk

Thanks for the tip on the radiator! Before I throw down a couple hundred on a new radiator, I'm going to make sure that the carb is adjusted properly and not running too lean as well as make sure everything else is in order. If it's still running hot, the radiator will be next on the list.

As it stands, I'm going to stick with what is practical (and low cost) and keep the 4.1. I'll be ordering the crankshaft kit and rods soon. Once she's running good again, I'll be cleaning up the frame and axles as Wabbit recommended.

I'll keep y'all posted with the progress! Thanks for all the input!

Flash319

I have never owned one but everyone that I have talked to say the 3.8 is the worst engine ever made. I would just freshen up the 4.1 and drive it. I hate bastard Toys but if thats what you have then just leave it. I agree that a 3.4 would be sweet but $$$. Buicks are a dime a dozen! rightly so......

The body on that thing is in awesome shape. I wish I could get them like that here............

jvmin

I've owned an 84 with a built 84 buick regal 4.1 with 390 holley headers and a small cam in it for years now.
your gonna love the bottom end power it has. Do keep in mind the crank, rods and pistons are the same ones they used in the turbo charged grand nationals try to keep em in tact. it would be better if you can just get yours resurfaced if possible. the 4.1 crank has fluted rod journals and the rods are well. for more info go to gntype org. it's a site for grand national turbos. lots of info on the 3.8 and the 4.1's a lot of those guys take our engines and swap all their turbo stuff onto them for more power.

my truck has the five speed conversion and I actually got it by accident the engine was supposed to be a 4.3. what I did find out was the headers I had ordered for a 4.3 fit the buick engine as well as the engine adapter bell housing. it seems they use the same part for several apps and what not.

The engine mounts fit as well. I had found out as well that the 3.8 and the 4.1 are the same block and engine components. just the crank and pistons are different. longer stroke bigger bore. some other differences were the 3.8 was 2 barrel and the 4.1 was 4 barrel

your overheating problem is probably the radiator. or a fan clutch issue. the 88 89 v6 toy radiators were a bit bigger than the 84-85 models. I bought an 88 replacement radiator and had it modified to fit the buick hose locations. I also run dual electric fans to keep it cool. I got the radiator for an automatic so I could utilize the trans cooler as well

depending on your conversion buick to th350, buick to 700r, buick to ??? your transmission could be making it overheat as well. you might just need a inline transmission cooler

anyway my only complaint out of the engine has been the carburetor issues on extreme hill climbs and side hills. other wise it runs like a scalded dog. and has extra highway power to spare.
other than breaking the whimpy toyota parts behind it it has run flawlessly

my 22r had the same carb sputtering choking flooding issues on the hills and side hills.

the conversion to a 4.3tpi or tbi wouldn't be bad for you since you have all the necessary conversion parts if they are from advance adapters. all you would have to do is find a running 4.3 vortec with the computer in tact and the rest should fit right back in place engine mounts and all. Check into advance adapters they will tell you what ever you need to know if thats what you've got. just be sure and get the vortec with all the engine components like the air conditioner, alt, power steering and stuff and you would have the benefit of the fuel injection compared to carburetor. 160-200plus hp with minimal investment

my engine pushes close to 240hp and it breaks g52,g54 and w56 transmissions like they are butter. I finally went to a beefier transmission and fixed that weaklink problem. I dog the piss out of it most of the time and it just keeps on running strong.

mouse4x4

I had the buick 225 odd fire in my 4 runner never had a problem with it ran a 600 holly, hot cam, and headers held it to the floor all the time never had a problem i had to run a mechanical fan to keep it cool though tried all kinds of electric fans but none would keep it as cool as the mecanical and you def need a 4 core radiator

mouse4x4

or this rad worked for me at first extremeradiator.com they have a direct fit bolt in toyota to gm conversion rad for around 180.00 bucks